99 s10 2.2 with t3 all homemade
 

thought this might be something u all would like to see. just a low buck setup with a chrysler turbo and water injection. its an escort car for oversize loads so im after good economy, not so much for ripping horsepower. but it will still scoot if i need it to. this is tonight with a temporary charge pipe and a few other temporary things just to make sure it all works before refining it. ill build the pipe, add the accel coils and wires, fmu (i know....), water/meth, and air cleaner over the next few weeks when i get time. its spools almost instantly and runs real well. i have an adj fmu coming. for less than 10 psi and non-race use, the fmu will be just fine since the pcm will decide the fueling all the time anyway.https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1321831010

I would recommend you do a boost leak test to make sure that ghetto charge piping is holding. Might have to get out the jb weld.

I have been running fmu's on my ghetto turbo builds for around 5 years now. Haven't lost a motor yet. Keep the boost low, run cold plugs, retard the base timing a few degrees, run premium gasoline, upgrade the fuel pump, and enjoy your cheap, reliable fueling.

ya, thats gonna be the charge pipe for about 2 days. its a cv boot, exhaust reducer, and a 120* rad hose bend lol. works, but definitely not permanent. i have a piece of 2 1/4" stainless to bend into a permanent solution. it will look like a procupine with the water nozzles, boost line nipples and hobbes switches

timing isnt easily adjustable on these. ill be running stock timing anyway with the water squirter. filled er up with high test tonight on the way home. i have wideband, fuel psi, boost, and egt gauges to go in it too. its already got the 2 steps colder champion plugs, and when my boot kit gets here from summit, ill make the wires. i just build em myself, i have a 100' roll of accel 8mm spiralcore. also got a few accel hi-volt replacement coils sitting around to swap out the coil packs.

the 4l60e is bad (thats why i got the truck for 400 bucks) so tomorrow ill be running to the junkyard to grab another one. the transgo kit will make it feel like its got even more power. its 4.10's in the rear and if i dont get in the 30's for mpg, im putting 3.42 or 3.08s in it. i wanted to swap in a set of 3.08's and a 4speed overdrive stick, but none of the holes or hardware is there for a clutch so its gonna stay automatic. if i find a lower stall convertor, that will go in too.

its got a 10" piece of 2 1/"2 out the turbo, just past the starter, then wide open 3" into 3 1/2" out in front of the passenger rear tire. looks a bit large on such a little truck but sounds nice. theres no hiding the turbo....its a screamer. once ive ran it a while, and know the manilfold wont crack, i have a roll of header wrap to cover all the hot side with, and if theres extra, ill wrap up the compressor housing too.

with the 2/2 lowering kit and a set of 1 1/2" wheel spacers behind camaro rs rims, it will look ok too. good stance, and good handling along with the nice running 2.2 will make it fun to drive. i really wanna chop the roof a few inches, but its lookin like that would be a pretty intense job.

steering is pretty stiff when ur slow or stopped with no power steering pump, anything over 10mph is fine. when i align it, ill lessen the caster so its easier yet.

....also have a can of seafoam... thats worth about 100hp ive read. ;)

fun project. i also built a turbo s10 2.2. mine was a 98. i intercooled it and ran 8 psi on the stock motor. it was quite fun. i used hptuners to do all the tuning for a safe/ reliable build.
an fmu running 10 psi will damage your fuel injectors and raise your fuel pressure to dangerous levels. i would not run 10 psi on that stock engine. especially without an intercooler. the 2200 engine is prone to ring land failure as the pistons are really cheap.
also the pcm will not control fuel once boost is reached. once the fuel enjectors reach there 100% duty cycle there is no more fuel adjustment the pcm can do. also the pcm doesnt know its boosted so it will not make the poroper timing adjustments under boost which is critical to prevent spark knock. any spark knock that occurs will destroy the piston ring lands.

the stock fpr raises the fuel pressure 1:1 in boost just as it does in vacuum. it runs fine and stays in the rich side of the narrowband gauge even up in boost without an fmu now. the fmu only changes the mixture at wot when the pcm goes into open loop. in closed loop, the o2 decides the fueling, and the knock decides the timing. im not at 10 psi, just 5 at the moment, so no troubles. and my fmu is a cartech adjustable that is only about 4:1 so the fuel system will be fine with the walbro pump to 10psi. (im not running it at 10psi anytime soon, i just used that as a max figure in the future if all works well) sure, its hard on stuff when u are running the balls off it at wot and 10psi, but just putzing around is not stressful. its only seen boost a few seconds at a time so far. just working the bugs out. it goes right into boost with just a little bit of throttle, so im very careful until i get the rest of it done. with water/meth, detonation isnt a concern so the ring lands should be fine....and if it pops, ill just put a little perkins diesel in it.

today i was coming back from the parts store and i think the intake gasket gave up. terrible miss and a pretty loud hissing from the rear on the intake side of the engine. 253k miles on it so i guess its to be expected :)

well....no vacuum leak. runs fine now. gonna take it back out to the shop and soak it with degreaser and pressure wash it (its coated with a thick layer of grease from never being washed under the hood) then check the connections to the coils. it definately lost a pair of cylinders when it was missing earlier. raw fuel out the exhaust making it spool up just to move around. it did sit at idle for about 5 minutes at the bank so it could be a heat issue too i suppose. the temp didnt go over 180 because i left the heater fan running (its cold out up here by lake erie), but without an engine fan anymore, the heat under the hood gets pretty high when it sits. i cant run the regular fan anymore because that pulley (its an idler the clutch fan attaches to) spins backwards now since i changed the belt routing when i got rid of the a/c and power steering pumps. its just water pump, idler, alt, tensioner now. i have an electric fan setup from another s10 thats goin in it today. its a 2 speed fan from a buick that i run the low speed off the key-on and the high on a toggle and temp switch. if it gets hot, it will kick on high automatically if the key is on, but i can toggle it on at anytime. i am thinking about getting a turbo timer and wiring it in that too so the fan kicks on high when u shut off the key, and then goes off when the timer kills the engine.

i like to tinker with this stuff. it keeps your mind sharp. ill keep posting more ideas and pictures in this thread as i go. and when its officially running down the highway, ill post up what i get for mileage and any changes. if u have an opinion, post away. just keep it somewhat positive like the one above. :) i see this site can be pretty rough, and while i have no trouble telling someone to ---- off, it really isnt necessary since we all are here for the same purpose....cheap fun. im not old, but im not a kid trying to be cool on the internet either. im 31, and ive been blowing up junk since i was 12. this s10 is my 11th....i think. many of them have had nitrous or turbos or diesels or v8's. ive built everything from a 12 horse briggs n stratton with no2 to a 22psi 514 caddy with custom ross 7:1 pistons, eagle rods, 110 hours of head port work, a ford 460 tunnel ram cut and fit, twin holsets and a pair of 600 holley 4150's run on pump gas in the primaries and the secondaries ran on a seperate fuel cell and methanol. ive build a handful of tractors for the pulling track as well. in college i built a 74 ford hi-boy with 40" tsl's and a 406 roller motor. (406 was the predecessor to the 427 race engines). i had a 93 geo metro with the 3 cyl engine that took a 65 shot all day with water injection. :) gimme 200 bucks and something good to smoke, and ill probably come up with something lol

the factory fuel pressure regulator does not raise fuel pressure based on boost. it only raises fuel pressure as the vacuum gets lower. once the boost pressure reaches 0.1 psi the stock fuel pressure regulator no longer increases pressure. in order to increase fuel pressure based on boost you need to purchase an aftermarket 1:1 boost reference fuel pressure regulator. the will replace your stock fpr.
the fmu changes the mixture once it sees boost. it doesnt control the injector pulse width for accurate afr, it only increases fuel pressure over stock pressure to allow more fuel to come out of the same size injectors. injectors can be damaged at 70psi or more fuel pressure. your stock fuel pressure is 35-43 psi and you said you have an 4:1 fmu. this means that for every 1 psi boost you will raise the fuel pressure 4 psi. if you want to run 10 psi than you are increasing the fuel pressure 40 psi. add this 40 psi to the static fuel pressure and you are pressureizing your fuel system ~80 psi at 10 psi boost. this is very dangerous. not to mention your not actually tuning the engine your just dumping fuel into the engine based on boost pressure which will not accurately inject fuel. this will also cause premature fuel pump wear. if you insist on using the fmu, then drop the boost pressure to 6psi or less. later on when you want more boost then you can save up for an actual tune with larger injectors which will give you more power and reliability.

ok....the stock fpr doesnt know what atmospheric is. it is a simple diaphram that reacts to the pressure on one side, to restrict fuel flow on the other. i say pressure because there really is no such thing as vacuum. theres 14psi of pressure all around me. a 2.2 has 55-60 psi of fuel pressure at wot. the fpr lowers that into the 40's when the vacuum in the manifold pulls the diaphram in the fpr. when i add 5psi of boost, the fuel pressure raises 5psi also. so when my boost gauge reads +5, the fuel pressure gauge reads 65psi. i know this, not only because i know how it works, but also because im sitting there watching the pressure gauge ;) the fmu is not even necessary on a fuel system like this one, but at a low ratio like 4:1 or 3:1, it is easier to tune for wot. my small factory injectors can easily handle 100+psi . even at 10psi boost, they will never see that tho, because of diminishing returns. they may see 85psi, which is fine because its more than needed. with a reliable water/meth injection system coming on at +2psi, good gas, and the stock fpr raising it 1:1, the factory computer and injectors have plenty of leeway to keep it stoich.

im not changing the tune or any of the injectors. i believe 2.2's have 17lb'ers, and if i find a set of 19's i may put them in, but the computer will stay stock and the o2 will correct the mixture for me. that small of a change is within the reach of factory stuff. and with the 19's, no fmu would be needed at all as in open loop, it would run richer.

anyway, im running it at 5psi so none of this really matters. a squirt of water and it will run 5psi with nothing else done to it. its doing it now without the water, but it pulls timing out. i can feel it step the timing back.

a narrowband o2 is not accurate enough. if its not near stoch(14.7:1) an narrowband cannot read much lower or higher from stoch. the proper target afr for a boosted engine is around 12:1 - 12.5:1 afr. a narrow band cant accurately read this.

once the engine is warm the ecm is in closed loop. open loop only occurs at cold start. the ecm is reading off a programmed map. once the o2 sensor is warmed up and giving accurate readings then the ecm goes into closed loop. unless the engine is tuned to read a 2.5 bar map sensor(which that particular ecm cannot), the ecm cannot read boost.

an fmu changes the fuel pressure dependant on boost pressure, not rpm or throttle position.

in closed loop the o2 sensor is read to adjust the fueling based on the ecm programmed map. if the ecm sees a lean condition from the o2 sensor, it can only adjust the injector pulse width so much from the programmed map. it is not instantly. there is a delay in the adjustments. same with the timing. the ecm has a programmed timing map installed on it. if the ecm sees a knock signal from the sensor then it tries to retard the timing. this is also a delayed repsonse. and in most cases, once the ecm see the knock and tries to retard the timing it is already too late. the engine is damaged.

at wot it is open loop. this is all very basic stuff. ive done all of it for long enuf to know that all the scary stuff u read on the internet is just internet chatter. the speed of the timing change is within 1 revolution of the engine in a coil pack engine. the water in the line cant even run out fast enuf to cause damage. its almost instantaneous, and the sensitivity is very high. if u damage an engine like this from detonation, it is because u pushed it outside its limits. at 5psi, i can ride around all day with my foot on the floor and it will be fine. fmu or not. it wont make any power, but it wont hurt it either :)

like i said, i have a wideband ill put in it if i want to push it. but for now, if the narrow reads rich at 5psi, its golden. and you need to remember that with water injection, u dont want to run it rich. peak torque is made at 13.1afr. those rich mixtures are for keeping pre-ignition down, but do nothing for power or economy. water lets you run 13-13.5afr's and factory or even advanced timing in boost. optimal timing and mixture is where the power is. richening and retarding is sacrificing power to keep it alive

yes. that is the most the stock fuel rpessure is going to be able to make no matter how much boost you run.

the o2 will not correct the mixture under boost. the ecm is trying to keep the afr at stoich under boost. the ideal afr under boost needs to be 12-125:1 for the most power. the richest you want to go is 11.5:1.

how would you run richer under open loop? under open loop the o2 sensor is out of the equation. there is no 2.5 bar map sensor for the ecm to read so its not going to know its boosting and its going to lean out.

you know its pulling the timing so you know you are running too lean. adding water and it now pulling timing just confirms that its knocking. cant make power with water. add more fuel or your going to pop the motor. the top compression ring land to the top of the cast piston is very small. maybe 1/4" and they will break from lean conditions or knock.

its not running lean. its running warm air under pressure. afr is not why an engine knocks. it pulls timing because it has too much cylinder pressure and pre-ignites. the proper fix for that is not richening up the mixture, its killing the pre-ignition. when the water goes on it, there wont be anymore timing issues. i dont want 12-12.5 afr because i will be spraying water. its a waste of fuel and power to run it rich

wot open loop=rich. injectors run at the highest duty cycle programmed in the pcm. raising the fuel pressure to them with a fmu is why u get the rich mixture at wot. if you arent in open loop, the fmu is useless since the pcm lowers the duty cycle to fix the mixture and satisfy the o2 sensor circuit. the whole point of an fmu is so u can steal the tuning ability away from the pcm at wot. u dont want the map to know whats going on....only to tell the pcm to stop thinking and spray fuel. then we adjust the fmu to get the afr right....and change nozzles in the water jet to get the quench right. at all other throttle positions, u want the pcm to choose the best settings for the best drivability.

heres a good write up. a little snobby, but they do have their ---- together, so i suppose they can be.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

I just had this discussion about factory regulators being 1:1 with busa4 the other day. Its a simple diaphragm, and its position changes based on the pressure differential across it. The fpr will eventually saturate at some manifold pressure and stop increasing the fuel pressure, but I have tested them out to 10psig with no signs of saturation.

I ran a walbro 255 balls out with a 12:1 fmu and 8psi of boost for about 50k miles on my 240sx, back when running an fmu wasn't so taboo. The fuel pump maxed out at around 90psi, it wasn't supplying the theoretical (43+12*8+1*8) = 147psi. My injectors with 160k miles didn't mind the excessive pressure for all those miles, and i beat the living piss out of it. It was a mid 13sec car with $1000 in mods.

I have a walbro 190hp fuel pump in my daily driver (89 integra) and the same fmu that I used on my 240sx. It has been boosted for a year at about 7psi and she is still going strong. These injectors have 198k miles on them and they don't mind the high rail pressure either. The afrs are perfect under boost and cruise with the 8:1 disk in the fmu.

You can read about how crappy fmus are all day on the internet. If you keep the boost low, they are a reliable source of fuel enrichment. I know they are not ideal, but they work.

ya, injectors have to be pretty big to lock. i suppose a set of old 55's wouldnt like 110psi too much, but 17's are very small and wont mind any pressure i could push on em. if my stocker wont push past 70psi, ill replace it with a new gm unit. i tested a few autozone pumps a few years ago and they all deadheaded less than 70. the gm unit i ended up with deadheaded at 135psi. it wont do that with the flow of a real engine at wot, but 100psi was easy to get with the return line pinched (i went racing with 200shot jets, but lost the fuel jet, so i ran it with my 150 fuel jet and the return line pinched ;) kinda like hilborn injection....super rich sweet smelling at the line, and ripping flames to the 60ft mark!!

fmu's get a bad rap like nitrous or welded spider gears. all of them work awesome for a guy like me....all of them are disastrous for the average high school kid

hogged out the compressor housing today and radiused the inlet.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1332897394

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1332897394

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1332897394


it has become a hotrod project since i dont need another escort car. nitrous is goin in this week :)

good to see it back. thought you gave up on it.

No its been going. Just tinkering to make it nicer. And since I don't need it as a escort car its getting lots of hotrodding. Ill post pics as I go if u all are interested

definitely. pics please..

heres the junk :)
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

nozzle ready for install

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

intake pipe and filter

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

down the tube. water at top right

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

axle hanging. i need to cut the snubbers the right length yet.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

tranny out. transgo hd2 kit, Zpak, etc

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141218

heres the junk :) can you spot the nitrous bottle in the background?
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

nozzle ready for install

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

intake pipe and filter

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

down the tube. water at top right. got a little blue to clean up, but better to be sure its sealed

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

axle hanging. i need to cut the snubbers the right length yet. the wheels are c4 zr1 chrome with the old school backspacing (84-87) so they only take a 1 1/2" spacer instead of the 2 1/2-3 usually needed. 17x11 and 17x9.5 with 335/35 and 275/40 michelin pilots.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

tranny out. transgo hd2 kit, Zpak, etc. fun

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1333141235

tires on. 315/35-17's

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1338245874

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/attach...ine=1338245874