88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Here it is bitches. 1988 Mazda 626 turbo(the ugly white piece of ---- in my avatar). MegaSquirt 2 Extra. GT3782VA from a 6.0L Ford diesel engine. This is a VGT turbo. The 'uppipe' has the turbine inlet flange from a stock y-pipe that I raped on one end and a T3 flange on the other end to attach to the T3 flanged manilfold that I already afro-engineered-up. not making any real power yet. MS is controlling the VGT OK right now. Still working on it. putting a wastegate in the system this wekend. Hers the pics:

THis is the pipe connecting the manifold to the turbine inlet. Im adding a wastegate soon.
Attachment 10105
This is the downpipe before I added the O2 bung
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Attachment 10112
and heres some Ford info on the turbo/VGT solenoid:
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Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

wat

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Isnt one of the features of the VTA the fact you DONT need a wastegate?

What diesel turbo is it?

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

looks like its off a ford 6.0l, 2003 to 2007. Those viens like to stick bad, as me how I know :1

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Yes.....IF you have very sophisticated controls. All I am using right now is a duty cycle table based on RPM and TPS input. I will be working on that, but right now the wastegate is kind of a safety device.

That is correct. Its a Garrett GT3782VA from a 6.0L diesel truck. You know that I know that the vanes stick. This turbo was a warranty core returned for just that reason, but I cleaned it up. I'm also not running sooty diesel exhaust through it either. AND I know that EGTs ned to e watched closely too.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Aw ---- I knew I knew that user name. Yes I'm sure you got that on lock down ;) How often do you get warrantty parts like turbos, injectors, ---- like that that doesn't need to go back to ford? I need some spare parts for some cores on up coming mods >:D

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Under what options in MS did you put the parameters? Are you using the Boost controller duty table? ------- good work son. MS wins again.

Can you share some info on the size of the motor ect is that the 2.2?, initial spool impressions?
Could u also send me your MSQ file?

Does anyone know how small to large the Ar's change?

Vane actuator uses oil pressure ("55-60psi will do")
?

http://www.schumanautomotive.com/for...ead.php?t=2871 That website states the veins open with oil pressure? Is that true?

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Yes there is a piston inside the CHRA that actuates the VNT using oil pressure. Oil pressure to the piston is controlled using the PWM solenoid that also mounts into the CHRA.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

OOO so the oil system is closed loop from the rest of the system. I wonder if I could spin this thing with a 1.6L at the smallest point.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Its under the 'Advanced' menu. Yes Im just using the duty table. This is MS2Extra. The engine is a 2.2l 3valve. With the vanes at 85% DC it will start maing boost at 2000rpms and be 10+ by 3000 rpms. Im not sure how much the A/R changes. The actator is as Aero described it. The oil system is NOT closed loop. Your just hook up oil lines fom your engine just like any other turbo and the actuator moves accordingly.

heres some other info that some may find helpful:

vane position(DC%) Apms
0 0-.4
10 .45
20 .5
30 .55
40 .65
50 .725
60 .8
70 .95
80 1.1
90 1.3
100 1.5

On a Ford truck, It will never run more than 85% DC. I'm not sure if the solenoid will kill itself past that or what the reason is. I am hoping to get some more information from deeper inside Ford/Garrett/International/Navistar soon.


Turbine
Inducer: 72.25mm 2.84in
Exducer: 66.45mm 2.62in
.9 A/R

Compressor
Exducer: 81.55mm 3.21in
Inducer: 58.00m 2.28in
.58 A/R

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

So does that mean you don't use a restrictor in the oil feed line?

Comparing to holset hy35: Just to get an idea of wheel size

compressor:
ind:2.306'
exd:3.330

Turbine:
ind: 2.272'
exd:2.551'

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

No, I dont have a restrictor in the feed line. I am having some doubts as the whether or not my engines oil pressure is adequate for proper lower RPM control. I think I'm going to put some washers behind the oil pressure control valve spring and see what I can get out of it. right now I dont have much more than 10 psi at idle and it doesnt go past 30 psi at higher RPMs even cold...

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

That is really low. I wonder if that is why romping on it at higher RPM causes boost to come in much slower. Insufficient volume/pressure to rapidly move the piston.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

It sure isn't helping matters. but the reason its like that is because of the taper in DC that I have in the map at higher RPMS for boost control. Now with the wastegate, I can just command it close to full and let the WG take care of extra boost.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

What happened with your wastegate actuated setup?

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

That past was about his Garrett VNT setup.

Mine is staying with the WG actuator, the car doesn't run though from the spun bearing at ~1000 miles. Still waiting to pull the motor and send it back to the machine shop to fix their mistake.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Hmm. I'm almost smart enough to tell you what circuit you need and how to build it, but not quite.

You can setup MS to output a PW modulated by TPS and load. You know that. Then you need a couple other little things to change that to what you need, which is current as a function of those variables.

Need to get on msefi.com and talk to some people over there. There's a few that are smart enough to tell you what components to use to make this happen. It's probably gonna be something that looks at PW and varies resistance based on it, and that referenced to a votage regulator that's moded to be a current regulator.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

I'd just go the "who gives a ----" method and just deal in abolutes. Zero duty, 50% duty, full duty. Maximize spool with it at zero, switch to 50% at a medium boost level, then full when you hit full boost.

IIRC Aero you said even with your hosing 100% open, boost was still rising? From a very rough scientific point of view, diesels don't produce as much exhaust volume at full throttle power vs gasoline PER LITER. Most diesel engines also suffer from terrible V.E., if you can call it that. Only very complex direct-injection systems make decent exhaust flow at higher rpm.


Can you provide any details on how much faster it spools than a conventional setup??

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

I have tried to poke them on msefi a little. There are very few people interested in this VGT ---- right now though. I have a computer-wise friend looking into the control for a better solution...it will be an ever-evolving project.


ON mine I can get about 5psi in 2nd gear at 6200 rpms with no control, 0% DC, vanes open. with the vanes commanded to 85%, fully closed, I can start making boost at about 2000 rpms, 10+ psi by 3000 rpms and it goes crazy after that, also in 2nd gear.

S

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Here is how mine spooled. It is in 4th gear. It is a bit faster than the HX40 I had in the small BEP housing before. Not quite as much as was thinking do to the higher gear, but still faster. I need to find my logs from the Hx40 again to post side by side.

Yes it is a 2.4l. 8-8.3:1 compression.

Here were my initial spool results with the VGT rack fully closed and fixed there. This is just the first log I opened.
Here are the the most important things affecting spool
4th gear
8" of 3" pipe for an exhaust
No intercooler
E85
8-8.3:1 compression
stock head, cams, intake manifold
Fairly low timing
1800 1psi
2000rpm 3psi
2500 8psi
2600 10 psi


Its a little slower now, the actuator starts to open the thing up a little sooner than I'd like.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

MBC FTW.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Unfortunately I'm not well versed in the MS2 world, and I dislike complex electrical "solutions" wheras OEM's do. I'm curious if you couldn't take a cheap motorola MAP sensor's linear voltage output, use that to control a simple transistor power circuit, and work it via amps-vs-boost. I know most simple circuits use resistors as the voltage-out control, but I'm sure their's either one with voltage-input control, or can be done with some electrical tomfoolery. I'm not much of an electrical engineer, but I know someone who is.


Aero one other thing I was thinking about using for another app was a mini pressure regulator. Setting it a little higher than the WG spring (and its bleed flow) will allow it to open 100% eventually, but allow it to open more gradually. An MBC would obviously allow a higher initial opening, but would also help prevent premature opening. With the pressure regulator and a vacuum box/reservoir, it would help premature opening even more, but at the expense of non-linear actuation (speeds up with boost).

You could also give me $30 for a MAC boost solenoid, then add a Hobbs switch and it would never open prematurely. ;D

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

The MS2 option is nice because it gives you the option to open the Garrett VNT up at cruise if you choose to, will help with efficiency.

As for mine, I intended to try a couple different MBC's on the damn thing, but didn't get the chance to when the bearing went. It iwll be on the top of the things to do when I get it running again.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Good.

It's a bitchin' project.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Well as an update, I installed some 40#(420cc) injectors tonight and was hoping to boost this thing more than 10psi. But at about 17-18 psi Im running out of fuel pump. Then was going to make some 13-15 psi pulls and one of my ------- spark plug wires fell off the distributer cap. I thought it something slightly more interesting and just limped the car home. That pretty much ended the night. It started snowing too, so not the greatest time for high boost tuning. :P

O, I installed a 38mm WG and am using that with a manual boost controller to ultimately control the boost. Without more sophistocated controls I just dont think its possible and Im not much of an electronics/computer nerd yet, so.......

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Puts some ------- studded tires on it and get the ---- back out there!

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

----, if I had some I would. A friend that was over last night fo the tuning has some 660cc injectors and a 255 walbro that hes gonna let me use for awhile. when I get those in, then ---- will go down. >:D

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

This is what I like to hear.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Good stuff in this thread.

My friend in the R&D dept. at BW was saying that most of the VTG turbos built in the last 5 years will survive 1000deg.C for extended periods of time. Pretty impressive stuff considering the old #'s were in the 800c range. Nickel cadmium alloy for the vanes is the winner here.

Everyone should ride in a 997 Turbo at least once to truely experience the VTG magic. 500lbft at 2000 rpm is no joke. Reminds me of the origninal LSx series big blocks. Torque out the ass at any rpm, anytime.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

One of these days, I'll get the VGT on my 4age ST.

Considering putting 2 on the wife's stang.

Been struggling with work and all, so keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table comes first

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Too bad Obama doenst have some govenrment assistance for those of us who like to go fast. like tax deductable turbo parts? Buy a big mutherfuckin turbo and clain it as 'SANITY EXPENSES'? WFT? O0

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

I don't want a red cent from the government. Free ---- is nice, but the government needs not to be handing out money. The ONLY role they should have is the safety and security of the nation.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Its my money they are handing out. Im gonna get as much of it back as I can. :P

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

I have to kind of agree with you both here. The free ---- is at my expense so its really not free.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Si, can you get me some of the inlet V band flanges? Figure it would be cheaper than going with new flanges. Let me know if and how much, I need 3 in all.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

possibly. I have one extra set of factory y-pipes laying around and the flange that i used on my car. Im always on the lookout for more..I was just thinking, I bet WEIR could make them if I or someone sent him one for a template. The factory flange is stepped, so it really helps line up the turbine inlet, which is oppositely stepped.

Re: 88 Mazda 626 Garrett VGT MS2Extra
 

Yea, I found a place that makes some, but they want like 45 each, I figured if I could get them cheaper, I could splurge a little more somewhere else on the build.