3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

im going to run about 8 lbs of boost on a jdm d15 vtec, will i really need to add a 3 bar map sensor?

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Nope. Not unitl you want over 12psi, and even then guys still use stock ones.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

yes anything jdm and above you will have to :S

j/k youll be fine with it stock, especially at 8psi

man jk i sat on this too long trying to work and you beat me to it

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Yup when you get laid off from work and waiting to start a new Job instead of putting up with the bullshit at the other all I got is free time baby!!!!

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

i heard that the only time u need a 3 bar map is when you pushing close to 30 psi.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

you heard wrong, at least for a honda

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

naw i push ova 30psi on the stock map sensor and its fine


haha jk

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Well a Stocker is good til about 12psi. After that the ECU guess' in it's own little way.

Then you can run a 2.5bar, good to 22psi

Then you can run a 3bar, good to 29psi

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

you sir are an idiot. do the math douchebag theres 14.5psi per bar, a 1 bar map sensor (stock on honda's) sounds to me like it would be good to 14.5psi, (even though they arent accurate all the way to 14.5)

what I was woundering is why honda's were made with a map sensor when theoretically they were never meant to have positive pressure in the manifold? feel free to call me a douchebag in return

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Well you are wrong.

Stock sensor, 1.8bar. Minus Absolute of 14.5psi or 1 bar, you get .8bar in remander.

.8bar=11.6psi

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

You're all idiots.

The first bar of a MAP sensor's reading is neatly eclipsed by the 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure.
85-91 MAP = 9.25 psi
92+ MAP = 10.6 psi

You can make stock MAP sensor read 21.5 psi, though, it's easy. You just dig the OE sensor out of the casing and stuff a Motorola 2.5 bar inside it.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Prove any of this. And if you post logs from ANY of the rom editors I will laugh.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

::)

Like I just make up numbers to LIE.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Yep. So where is the proof?

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

for the OP: you dont need a 3 bar mapsensor your fine up to 12 psi on the stock sensor. :1

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Go search my posts on HT circa '01-'02, I did a nice little write up with a DVOM, 5v PS, and air compressor. I pointed out how ZDyne got OBD0 MAP correct @ 9.25 psi limit, and Hyundaidata got everything terribly, terribly wrong claiming 11.3 psi, and demonstrated not only how they deduced 11.3 from MAP scalars in the ECU but also demonstrated that the-o-rectal upper limit of Honduh MAP is 11.8 psi *if it could return full 5v* and that they got 11.3 from rounding errors.

Blundar, JDogg aka JDouchelordMBAseekingnoskillpossessingfaggot, Speed Phreak, Tr1t0n, and a few others were present in March '04 when I asked Doug MacMillan of Hyundaidata why his website claimed 11.3 psi, derived from code and rounding errors, when they in actuality returned 10.65 psi? His glib response was that all of the OBD1/OBD2 sensors they tested returned various upper limits, as low as 10.4, but this is obvious horseshit. Why claim 11.3 psi fixed value? Why advertise this with no tech blurb/disclaimer, rendering accurate boost cut control in software useless?

Inqyfag, you are a ------- Legend among zero experience having recycled information of various accuracy spewing Internet Keyboard Warriors. At no time do you - or will you ever, at this rate - possess a fraction of my experience or my the-o-rectal knowledge. My every tech post and every write up and every car I tune or build or sort or fix attests to this - do not think that just because I ask people not to ----- dyno sheets combined with my name, do not think I don't have a pile of them.

What have you done? Nothing... except get every tech post you make wrong, and insinuate that I lie. Well? Prove it. Prove anything. Burden of proof is in your court, seeing as you're the Nobody With Something To Prove. :1


You got the :1 part right, nothing more.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

atmosperic pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, if you live higher than that your sensor's limit will be slightly different.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

No, I'm insinuating that your accuracy to the hundreth's place is absolutely ridiculous and that I don't trust that whomever gave you the information probably didn't do too much on the testing side. Seriously, look at Hondata. They ------- release software for years and its full of bugs. They release IAT/ECT correction and its just ----. Their credibility does not go too far with me regardless how much you love their Limey accents. You're arguement makes you lose some credibility simply because you make it look like any map sensor outputs up to 5V. Look up some data sheets. None that we use do. I've yet to see one that does. So yea, saying it reads up to about 11psi is good enough. If you want to use exact numbers to the hundreths place, you better have data to back up your statements.

And Ifly, these are absolute sensors. The idea of psi really doesn't work with them but basically any point past 14.7psi or 1013mbar is concidered positive pressure. This can vary a huge amount from gauge pressure but thats the way every EMS software in the world works. This means if you go up to colorado and lets say it has an atmospheric pressure of 13.7psi and before you were at sea level with an atmospheric pressure of 14.7psi and you ran a naturally asperated engine, at WOT the map sensor would read 13.7psi(or close enough) but your pressure gauge would read 0psi. The idea behind the ECU is that it knows a number of corrections which will mean if you tuned for section in the map that corresponds to 13.7psi the car should run just dandy.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Point made, but since I was illustrating math errors made by Hyundaidata in a pure math environment (code) then the extra decimal places become very valid... especially when the real world sensor is accurate enough to display a pressure to output line that projects 11.8 psi at hypothetical 5v return. However, the funny thing is, while offset may vary, the max output is repeatable to a hundredth of a volt - we are not dealing with a large span 2-3% accurate unit like GM, Honeywell, Kavlico, Motorola. I used a lab meter to measure and a quality PS, not some toys.

Excuse me? Gave me the information? Can you not read?

Can you not read? Where did I say anything flattering about Hondata? :S

And they aren't Limeys, they are Kiwis. Some Limeys are actually bright, Kiwis are dumb farm boys.

::)

Hyundaidata's ASSumption is that the Honduh MAP is a 0-5v return sensor.

We use GM MAPs, which are 5v return sensors.

I am full well aware that Kavlico (or the Honeywell ASP100 6.9 bar I have on the shelf) are 0.5-4.5 volt return, and that the Motorola 2.5 bar is a 4.9v return.

:1 dur dur dur dur you are a ------- dumbass! :1

PSI works with them. Are you saying pressure measurements don't work with pressure transducers? ::)

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

BTW - I like how I went from LYING to losing some credability. Inqyfag, you suck at accuracy and significant digits when dealing with the English language. :S

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

rofl, self owned...

call him an idiot, then go and show your ignorance on the subject. good job :S

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

You said o-rectal, that made my day, .....pretty slow day...

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

------, no map sensor we use returns 5V. http://not2fast.com/electronics/comp...P_12223861.pdf Thats the GM 3bar spec sheet. Notice how it doesn't return 5V. Vo = Vs(.00318*P - 0.00353). P=300KPA Vs = 5V Vo = 4.75235. The spec sheet says the absolute max at 304kpa it will return just over 5V, but with the amount of accuracy claimed in that spec sheet, I'd say you are looking of a return at 3bar at about 4.8V based on the formula given and the claim of the absolute max being 5V. Using simple averages agrees with the return of 4.8-4.9V. So Joseph, I'm a dumbass?

I'm well aware the Honda map sensor doesn't spit out 1.8bar. I'm also aware that most will read up to about 10-11psi(closer to 11 according to Honda's spec sheets and logical assumptions). Your total confidence in your numbers is laughable though. I'd barely feel comfortable using a number with with 3 sig figs let alone 4. Especially when talking about sensors that are nearly 20 years old.

My comments about pressure is simple. When people think about psi they think about guage pressure 9 times out of 10. Using it in an absolute scale where you define what is positive and negative pressure with the psi unit gets fishy and lots of misunderstanding comes about. Thats why it really doesn't work. It's like the idea that Americans use lbs for mass and weight. It confuses the ---- out of people when you start talking about density. Using different units allows people to detach themselves from what they are used to and make accurate connections.

PS: http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/.../OBD1_8bitMBar

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

It's a +/- 3% variable sensor. Now, what's that work out to? :1

Yup!

Since Honda's service literature go to a red hair over three volts, and logical ASSumptions aren't Joey with a voltmeter and a pressure source. You can call it 10.6 psi.



The repeatability of the results I got off of a half dozen sensors, and how often Honduh MAP sensors ---- the bed, paints the real picture. BTW, where'd I get to four significant places? At no point in time in this thread did I claim four significant places. Real world vs Inqyfag's revisionist accusations-always-changine song and dance based on zero experience. :3



Oh, I see... just because most people are stupid, you are correct. ::)

The precise meanings of systems of measurements used by scientists and engineers should not be twisted to suit the limited intellectual grasp of a generation of illiterate, innumerate, TV watching, mentally absent fast food eaters.

Please define for Joey: "PSIA," "PSIG," and "fist yourself."


Uh, so ------- what? It's a pgmfi.org wiki entry written by Rass. You want it to prove something? How about I get Rass to post up that he defers to me in this matter?

Hey, what happened to your original supposition that Joey LIED? Cough it up, woman, some of us are getting bored with your mouth.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

holy ---- :S

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

JD trailerpark beatdown!

this ---- is entertaining!!

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Read data sheets much? Its an 8% allowable error at 3bar. So yea, +/-3%. Its 4.7% allowable at best ------.

Your word isn't proof Joey. Lets see some results from some of your projects. You rambled for months on water injection and months before that about your ITB projects and the list is endless yet has anyone seen those projects other than Trav-Ass or one of your other buddies? Obviously huge sucesses. I know the Honda info only goes up to about 1bar. I posted the link remember? Most people who have half a brain look at said data chart and compare it to others and note the offsets and figure that the sensor will only output about 4.8-4.9V. Doing the math you get 10.5983675psi. I know your numbers are quasi correct. Thats not why I bust your balls. I bust your balls because you feel no need to validate what you say.

Where are these results? Where is this data? We are just supposed to suggest your ADHD self proclaimed drug using self did the test properly? We know you are smart, but I wouldn't trust your attention span for even the most simple of tests. So again, where is the data? Where is the proof? I got 4 significant figs from the same place you got 3% error for the map sensor.

PSIG= gauge and I'd assume PSIA = absolute. The fact of the matter is, regardless if you think so, psi headers when talking about absolute pressure sensors confuse the ---- out of people. Talk to most people who have aftermarket turbo setups about the difference between absolute and gauge pressure. Ask them what a bar of pressure is. Ask them what an atmosphere of pressure is. The conversion from inHG to PSIG to PSIA is queer and far more difficult to understand than bar/kpa.

Nigga, if you only knew.

Where is the data proving your data?

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

Are you mocking jd's posting style to sound intelligent? Using words like "said". It doesn't work, it just makes you look like a tool. If you want to roll provide a valid argument, please redo jd's experiment in a controlled environment and document all variables. And don't say "Well JD didn't document all variables, blah blah blah". He probably did and theirs no reason for him to regurgitate every ------- bit of data that came from his experiment in expectation of some douche bag coming out of the woodwork to challenge him for a few extra pixels on his e-penis. You're obviously just following him through threads trying to demean him, while he minds his own business because you see him as a challenge, or a threat. All you have done in this thread is proven that your critical thinking skills are almost null, and you have no ability what so ever to manipulate an argument to try to work your way out of it. If you want to stir up some ostentatious ass, pseudo-intellectual ---- storm, please ---- off. We don't need that bullshit here.

Re: 3 bar map sensor, is it necessary?
 

:y

well said