Welding machines...
 

I see a lot of talk here about cheap welding machines. ALthough I understand not having money for what you really want, keep in mind that you don't get what you don't pay for. Those that say that a Smiley tools welder is as good as a Miller machine...it's simply wrong. As far as I know, the smiley machine is not water cooled, has no high frequency, and no remote amperage. Without remote amperage and high frequency, it is not possible to make a weld look as good as with it. Reason: You have no ability to adjust heat as you go, and you have to break the arc at the end, leaving a black spot.

When buying a cheap machine like this, remember that these guys don't have any big reputation to keep up, so you may not get much for support or service, should you need it. Not only that, but plan to lose nearly all your money on it, should you decide to sell it and upgrade.

Of course you will find those that say they're great machines, but people also tend to try and convince themselves that they made good decisions after they spend their money. Wait till they get rid of the machine and then see what they say about them.

If you buy cheap, you get cheap. If that's ok, then go with it..... but don't be misled into thinking that these machines are as good as the top brand names. Miller doesn't get 70% of the market because people like to spend money. Most professionals don't use them for that reason either.

I'm not a Lincoln fan at all, having bought one for my first machine. The machine sucked and nobody wanted to help me when it gave me problems.

As for my reccomendations, if you're going with a smaller machine, I'd reccomend that Thermal Arc 185. It's small, has pulse (full features), is an inverter, has low power consumption, and has a very nice and stable arc. Although I'm a big miller fan, they have fallen shor of impressing me with machines like the econotig and 180sd. Lincoln's PT185... well, the PT175 was my first machine. It started ------- up in its first year and they lincoln didn't even want to work on their own ----, neither did any of the dealers in the area. If it's a Miller, they all don't mind working on them. Maybe miller pays for the service calls and Lincoln argues them and doesn't want to pay...I dunno... I bought it for $1500, sold it for $900, took that $900 and another $600 cash and bought a used Syncrowave 350. So, in the end, I had $1500 in the syncrowave, but had spent a total of $2300, since I lost money on the Lincoln.

So, don't let all the smiley tools and other cheapo machines impress you. Sure, the person using it is most important, but you can't take a pro drag racer, put them in a stock vw, and expect them to win many races. Sometimes you're better off to save up your money, wait on a deal, and buy something good.

Ever notice how some people always seem to get good deals on stuff? They're likely the ones that save money and have cash on hand when the deals come up...while others can't come up with the money fast enough to take advantage of a deal.

Re: Welding machines...
 

I contemplated what to buy for a long time as well.I looked at all the cheap machines and almost bought the TE 185tsw because its the best small machine in that price range(I may still get one).I found a syncrowave 500 thats a few years old at my local welding shop for $800.It was just the box and cart and I had to add the rest,but it was one hell of a deal.I guess the point is that you should check your local welding supply shop first and see what they have.

Re: Welding machines...
 

noone here is stating the smiley is as good as one of the top mname welders out there, i was on a syncrowave 300 that put it to shame, i was stating that for the price, its a great piece for a hobby level welder. i am very satisfied with what mine has done for me, ill be upgrading to a new unit within the year.

my father had a lincoln precision tig 185 and i dont like it.

Re: Welding machines...
 

I dont think I ever stated the Smiley was a high quality unit either. With that said for the hobby welder you get a TIG and a Plasma cutter for $600. They both work and work fairly well. I have used mine moderately for 6 months with no issue. If I had the money would I buy a nice Miller, yes. Does this MTC120 from Smiley do the job and make me money? Absolutely. I make low dollar manifolds, Im not full-race. I never claimed to be. I just make things that people can afford, are strong, and look decent. I am hoping to Upgrade to a Miller this year as well. Something not too high end but with square wave technology. I will continue to recommend the Smiley unit because in the end its affordable and does work well for the hobby user and the general HMT fabricator.

Re: Welding machines...
 

its funny how your post sounds similar to another one recently but you are obviously a profesional and come off as one. in turn you get respectfull answers.

again i will say that it all comes down to how much you will use a welder. im 26, i own a house that ive been remodeling, 2 cars, have a wife, dogs, and a kid on the way. i cant afford to sink alot of money into a miller for something thats not gonna get alot of use. for me its nice to see OTHER people taking a risk and buying cheaper welders and then posting there results with them in a place like this. helps people to steer away from the true junk.

i dont think anyone is talking up any of these welders to the point that they are embelishing, they are what they are. cheap replacements for profesional tools (for hobby use). people in this forum are the type like myself that wont pay someone else to weld something like a manifold or exhaust for them, they would rather do it themselves.

i say seek out old quality used equipment (i for sure do this myself) cause thats were you get the best deals but dont be afraid to take risks on new stuff either.

Re: Welding machines...
 

ok and a completely seperate thought but for comparison, you mention miller getting 70 percent of the market. well it reminds me of back in the day (i say that like i was eveb born yet) when you had the big 3 batterling it out in the car market and companies like honda shot up because they actually responded to change in market requirements making little shiboxes powered by motorcycle engines. you still have people that buy american jsut cause its american and people that buy miller/lincon just cause of the brand. im not saying that smiley is gonna be the next miller but you get the idea. ;)

Re: Welding machines...
 

i mirror this post, merry xmas dave.

Re: Welding machines...
 

Engloid for president ;D

Re: Welding machines...
 

You can spen $600 on a smiley tig,or you can spend $1200 and get a hobart with a foot pedal and the ability to weld aluminum because it has AC.

Re: Welding machines...
 

If im not mistaken, the name ive heard.. (engloid) I think from HT, is a welder.. that makes manifolds.

anyways in regards to this post! welding machines, do what they're suppose to do.. some have more features. some are cheap, some are not. but ultimately they allow us to combine (weld) metals together.
and what you use to do that, widely depends on your pocketbook. cause im sure if eveyone here can afford the best, Im sure they would..

Re: Welding machines...
 

Yes, if all you want is a cheap welder, you can't get a Miller or other top brand name with that kind of money. However, some hobby guys are never satisfied with their welding, and want to be as good as any professional would be...and that will be hard to achieve without the right equipment.

Sure, these machines obviously fill a niche market...otherwise they'd not be selling.
Primarily I wanted to tell the "other side" of the story, the downfalls of buying a cheaper machine. Providing those things don't turn a person off, these cheaper machines may be what they should buy.

I have made some stuff like that, but most of what I have welded is industrial stuff. Making manifolds is too much like hard work for me...I try to stick to the "light duty" work. ;D If anybody thinks making manifolds is easy, they should try my job. I can't complain about much...except for the money, and it should be getting better soon.

Re: Welding machines...
 

We need a sticky topic on n00b welder selection, and the above text (plus some details) need to be in it.

As well as the opposing viewpoint, espousing the git-r-done mentality.

Re: Welding machines...
 

engloid, i agree with you 100 percent. i do want to be the best possible tig welder i can be, and yes i do realize i will need a better machine. the smiley tools did allow me to get started on a smaller budget, that what it is good for.

im about to start frquenting the hobart weld talk forum and ask some questions.

Re: Welding machines...
 

I looked up some pics of your work, and saw where you mentioned that you were going to be upgrading. I would suggest that you start looking for machines as you save money. WHen the good deals come up, you have to find them fast and be ready to buy. If it's you saying "give me 3 weeks to buy it" vs a guy that will give the same money today, you'll lose out on the deal to a guy that was just more ready for the deal. That philosiphy works well for me. I got an 86Ranger 4wd, 5sp v6 for $600, and my KDX200 for $600. I've had both for a few years and could still profit if I sold them.



I SUSPECT that the time you worked on the PT186 (I think it was), you were much less experienced than you are now. You may be able to do much more with it now.

I remember the first time I did tig welding. It was in high school, on aluminum. I only welded about 3 minutes, since I wasn't supposed to be doing it anyway. It looked terrible, dipping tungsten and such. About 3-4 years later, I was on the job and they had asked if I could weld aluminum. I said yes, picked up the torch and ran a pretty nice bead. At my first try years ago though, I didn't have enough knowedge to even know what to do, but years later, I did. Oh, and after I welded a few parts on that job, the boss asked if I had the certification and I said I didn't know. I checked with the welding engineer who looked at the parts and gave me the certification :)

In this thread, I'm not intending to bash these machines, as they definitely have filled a spot in the market. I only intend to be another voice that says they're not nearly as good as the big name brands (not near price either) Would I buy one? No...but although I'm not rich, I can afford a good used machine. After so many years of welding on the job, one of those cheap ones only frustrate me if I had to use it much. A place I work now bought a few cheap tig machines. Everybody refused to use them, saying they didn't do what we needed to do....so the company just now bought 4 new Syncrowave 250's ;D

Re: Welding machines...
 

engloid your probably right. i think half of the problem with me not liking the precision tig was the fact that it was setup incorrectly.

also most likely the fact i had much less experience.

Re: Welding machines...
 

I've managed to stay on topic. wOO WOoooooo 8)

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^^^Classic. :6
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Re: Welding machines...
 

lol, I think Josh meant HE couldn't lay a better bead with a better welder. I in fact couldn't either as I have tried.

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i ws referring to my weld ability.

the beads i lay withthe smiley are as good as any ive layed withthe syncrowave

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Oh, than I must have been mistaken. That response was taken from the post were sikcivic (whatever) started a post saying in order to have a quality weld, you must have a quality welder. Who would have known you'd call him dumb because you were referring to your own ability to not be able to weld. :D

Re: Welding machines...
 

yes steve, and you are the supremely skilled one

Re: Welding machines...
 

I must have missed the post where he said he was. ???
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Re: Welding machines...
 

I didn't Justin. That comment was only to divert you away from the ownage going on.


Get back on topic. >:(

Re: Welding machines...
 

My bad, carry on. :-[
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Re: Welding machines...
 

alot of missinfo in this post 1
you can adjust the heat with a scratch start it called pulling you arc and the speed you move at alwell as the amount of filler rod used.

but hands down the miller is the best machine on the market. There warrenty is better and faster than the "other red ones"

Re: Welding machines...
 

Sure... and you don't need to have brakes on a car....as long as you ALWAYS let off the gas early enough. ::)

Re: Welding machines...
 

I've found downshifting is far superior to letting off the gas or using the brakes. :6

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I have one of the harbor freight tigs... it's a piece... but it does what i bought it for. And its not the worst welder ever; i'm betting its comperable to a dc buzz box with a tig torch and gas. I bought it knowing that it would probably be a huge let down so i had very low expectations but it's really not a horrible machine. I need practice though.

It's no where near the quality of a real tig but like i said it works for what I bought it for. Most guys on hmt won't need xray quality welds so some cheapo welder will work for them.
I'd still give one of my nuts for a used ac/dc tig like a syncrowave or lincoln square wave but for now this little toy tig works :)