having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

I've tried everything I have... "Evolution" stainless blade in my Hitachi sliding compound miter saw (slowed down to about 1500rpms) -chop saw with abrasive wheel and finally settled on my 4x6 Northern tol (tiawanese like all the others) metal bandsaw. I'm trying to cut the collector parts at 10 degrees as this is for a long collector needed for my V-band Tial Turbine housing inlet.
I layout and mark the ieces absolutely precisely, I ease into the cut VERY slowly/carefully to avoid wandering... The parts just aren't fitting.

How close to the pieces need to fitin order to make acceptable welds? I have some parts that fit together perfectly, and others that are an 1.8" "off"

Next is what sandpaper works on 304 stainless? I have a 6x80, 4x36, 4x24, 3x21 and 8" disc sanders. I've learned that schedule 10 304 just takes the sand off the sanding belts, so I next tried Zirconia belts/discs. These don't last much longer than aluminum oxide belts!

If I can find sanding belts/discs that will cut the 304, I can tweak my collector parts into perfect fitment... anyone know what to use and where to get it?


Thanks

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Fit, it's okay if there is a gap, you use the gap to get full penitration. The max I would recommend would be 3/32" just to make it easy. The max you would ever want on this ---- would be 1/8". 1/16-1/8" would be a well accepted standard gap. Ive never migged schedule-10 stainless pipe, but if I were going to Id probably run 1/16" gap. Ive welded similar thin materials, I seem to recall liking any combo of 1/16-3/32" gap size with a 1/16-3/32" landing.

Obviously the longer the collector the better. 12* is nipplreriffic. To facilitate making them easy tho most of us do them at 15* unless we have a reason not to do so.

Somebody else can help you with the sand paper issue, I just grind them. Nothing special, just palm my hitatchi 4 1/2" angle grinder in one hand and the workpiece in the other.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Get some 1.5" pvc pipe and cut some for practice.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

also if you have some gaps in the collector, tack them together in 2 peices. that way you can put them in a vise and tighten it down to elinate the small gap.


also pvc is your friend. i have cut 30-40 feet of pvc in the last 2 weeks, getting collector jigs made.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

I actually made a complete PVC mockup header. the pvc went together amazingly well... then I cut equal length pieces of stainless, carefully mark the parts, clamp in the jig/vice and cut. that's where it becomes hit or miss... I'm not getting consistent results for some reason???
If you're saying 1/16" gap is OK, I'm within that tolerance.
I cut this collector at 10 degrees because it is goint into a V-band turbine inlet. The collector parts come together into a slight clover shape, and the V-band flange is round of course. I'm not quite sure how to address this, but I'm leaning towards getting it as close as possible, grinding the inside as close to reound as I can get it, and make up the difference (for the ID material removed) with a reinforcement ring which will gusset the original weld I better get some pics up here , as this is looking kinda tricky, and of course VERY hard to explain without photos...

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

if it is just 1/16th smash that bitch in the vice and tack it. problem solved. no need for gussets or reinforcing of it.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Here are some pics of my mess. please let me know what you think. should I proceed with this, or do I need to spend another week fitting (and practicing my hideous welds)

Attachment 11633
Attachment 11634
Attachment 11635

mockup:
Attachment 11636

Attachment 11637

mockup on the engine:
Attachment 11638

I'm setting these fuckers PRECISELY at 90 degrees off the first cut for the "ghost cut" stacked tolerances throw this WAY off. as you can see, the mockup collector fit pretty well, the pic showing two collector sections held together reveals that I'm not cutting at 90 even though I'm clamping it at 90... I have a kickass blade/cutting grease, and I start the cuts VERY slowly while holding a screwdriver handle on the back of the blade to minimize wandering. also, even though I'm cutting off a clamp jig and indexing every part the same, I'm getting variations...
So I'm wondering if I should start over, grind 4 of the 6 pieces I've cut into compliance, or is this close enough that I can squeeze them in a vice as you're suggesting?

thanks for the help

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

ok for one that is almost no gap, it is not perfect but just tweak it a little bit and your golden.

also when i cut my collectors i place them to cut so it removes almost to much material. that way when the saw come's down on the peice and it puts pressure on it. it wants to pull it down so it will kinda roll over a bit.

it then comes out right in the end.

also i check to see if my cuts are right buy placing 2 peices on my bench, and if they fit up flush to the table and each other then they will fit up good.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

holy ---- u had to spend a lot of time with that PVC pipe.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

fit is good, i still think u may wind up gaping it more than it fits together. you can cheat it with a tig and just burn out the bottom without depositing relatively jack ----. not going to happen like that on wire.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

I'm trying to convince my wife that I NEED a TIG for Christmas. Any opinions on the eBay 3 in 1 machines? (TIG, Plasma + stick) or am I better off getting something else?

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

i started with a thremal arc dragster 85, no pedal or anything. it was not worth it. i would suggest just saving and getting a nice used machine. like a sync 180

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Miller Diversion 165 is cheap. Or check out our sponsor links for Giant Tech. He sells the CDM import machines and is very knowledgable about them.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

If you can save for a dynasty or synchrowave do it!
my ebay tig turned out alright. ill keep it for plasma and cheap family/friend travel unit, but i really miss having AC tig at home. aluminum, magneseium and very thin stainless get alot easier with ac. You can't even swap them to dcep :/

Im personally screwed because I would like a multi-process welder capable of AC tig AND all your wire processes. Unfortunately... Not going to happen grrrrrr. All the multi-process welders only do DC tig. :'(

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Toysrme mentioned palming his 4.5" grinder. I do this too.

I could make those collector pieces fit perfectly in about 5 minutes with a 4.5" grinder and a flap disc.

I would not go crazy trying to get the cuts perfect, just cut the fuckers. What you are experiencing is probably blade deflection. That's why the PVC went together fine- not enough load on the blade to cause deflection issues.

Buy a good, compact 4.5" grinder that you can operateeasily with one hand. Makita and Hitachi are better for this. Most of the DeWalt ones don't lock "on" and have a stupid paddle button down on the body of the grinder wehich makes them useless for this job. You want one with na switch nearer the top of the grinder that actually locks "on".

I have a dynasty 200dx. It's good but overkill if you just want to make manifolds.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Werd, Hitatchi G12SE2 for life.
Loves me some Hitatchi grinders. When I was in school me and another guy did part-time work at a place that gave out the equivilant dewalts. Most of the guys we went to school with had the smaller or equiv version in dewalts. Ive never replaced the brushes in mine yet seen maybe two dozen dewalts break. Not to mention they're un-ergodynamic as ----. Only thing that ever happened to mine was some cock sucker borrowed it and set it down on some hot plate after he finished grinding. It melted / fused the trigger and its gaurd together. Seems like he paid $12 to have Hitatchi ship me a new trigger assembly - good as new.
Trigger, that brings us to safety! I love that the trigger has a massive lock on it so that you can set it down without worrying about it - unlike Dewalts reinky dink version that is the exact some POS from their weakest 4 1/2" model to their large 9" model. Unsafe as ----. And I like the fact that unlike everyone else that leaves their gaurds off because they have to screw/unscrew it to adjust. The Hitatchi was the fiirst one AFAIK that uses a flip lever clamp. My gaurd never comes off my grinder. Ive seen disks fly apart wtf would I NOT want my gaurd on for??????

Im pretty sure we both do all our cutting on a bandsaw or chop-saw. But I bevel and do landings on the angle grinder. Do all the adjusting after the first cut with an angle grinder. Takes too ------- long to re-cut ---- and Id still wind up re beveling so...

Ya, I think eventually Ill get tired of dragging projects into work just to do some AC tig. Ill snap and come home with a Dynasty 200 and a Lincoln Power MIG 350MP will follow it at some point. Still love those Power mig's we had at school. Love their pulse.


Day the HF bandsaw fails Its being replaced with one of these:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-...-Bandsaw/G0561
http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg500/g/g0561.jpg

Not their best. The deck doesn't swivel. Still a good buy. 7*12" hydraulic bandsaw with fluid & 1hp motor for a grand. Nice.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

also on the collector, you might have better luck fitting up the pieces if you cut each pipe once, then weld the two together. then make your second cut on a 'joined' piece to make 2 into 4. make sense?

someone correct me if i am wrong.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Same problems cause them to be crooked. Shifting material, blade deflection, wasn't straight in the first place, etc. I dont weld 2s together and re-cut because that's one more jig and more trips to the bandsaw.
Nothing stoping someone doing it that way if that's how you like to do it.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

That's part of why I really like my 12" dry cut saw (as opposed to a 14"+ saw). The blade and the frame are smaller and the whole machine is a lot stiffer compared to a 14" machine.
Yeah I am limited to 4" or maybe 4.5" diameter tubing, but anything that big I can do in the bandsaw, or ---- even with the cutoff wheel if need be, for the amount of pipe I cut that big.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

The place I work at has one of those in the machine shop and it's okay except the workpiece clamp is stripped out. Acme threaded but the female thread material is not so good.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

My metal supplier bought one of those to put small ---- through. Its broken in every way possible.

Re: having bitch of a time fitting collector parts
 

Really? In what ways? We've never had anything but good to say about Grizzly. Aint top of the line most of the time, but it's solid medium and above.

We've got the pervious version of the G0513x
http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/j.../g/g0513x2.jpg

G0478
http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg288/g/g0478.jpg

G0593
http://www.grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg288/g/g0593.jpg

Old delta drillpress has a 3hp Grizzly motor on it that does a fantastic job.

Im interested to hear what broke!

i like the mock up better

---- it, run the PVC manifold, should hold, just have it coated :P

i recomend spending some time with the belt sander fitting them...i do this kinda ---- everyday at work, no matter how perfect the ---- is clamped up, no 2 cut perfectly identical