Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

yes that is the question. I'm in the midst of an major SR20DET rebuild here, and am contemplating the notion of having my own Headgasket lasercut for me out of CU110

Now there are some local Know it all's here, that seem to think Copper for any gasket is a big no no... then I google on it and can not find anyone badmouthing it... so I figure what better place to drop this question.....

SO... What is the good, the bad, and the ugly bout using copper for..
1: a headgasket.
2: exhaust manifold gaskets.
3: turbo flange gaskets.

Reason I'm going to be having it cut myself, it's like almost a 10th the price of buying it from a performance chop.... hey and then it's homemadegaskets, so that there just makes it worth the trouble... :)

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

I have never had a problem with copper. I use it on headgaskets all the time. I don't put it on cardboard gaskets because they absorb it too much and get weak, but with metal gaskets it gives you a little bit of extra thickness to squish down on.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

He's not talking about copper spray, he's talking about a full copper gasket.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

my b16a had a copper exhaust gasket... i thought it was wierd.. cause i coulda swore copper had a low melting point.. lol i can melt pennies with a lighter but i cant melt a copper gasket on my exhaust? idk...

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Well so far, from a lot of googling... Copper is good because it is a very good conductor of heat. Apparently this property makes for a much smaller chance of any heatspots forming somewhere on the rim of the gasket, that would otherwisely have caused it to fail at that spot... also the fact that it does not compress nearly as much as your std gaskets do, goes over well with those that think they know more than most.... :)

the only major down side to it, is price.... and to a lesser extent, availability in some regions, like the one I'm in.... :(

So far so good.... :)

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

One of the major problems with copper head gaskets is seepage. The gaskets tend to not seal up completely. The water jackets can and will seep water.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

that does seem to make sense yes.... whould the copper spray not be the thing to use for that though, or is it not that easy :)

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Multi layer steel (MLS) gaskets might be an easier route for you.

Normally they are easier to install properly. They also take up slight imperfections if the surface it completely free of ----..

Copper gaskets work well, and can be very durable, adding a small groove at the shop on the top of the milled surface is one way to make them hold better, but that is something that is very specific to the engine that you are running and you have to find a smart shop that you trust..

My engine is a Closed Deck so it is easier to accomplish this.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Racers refer to this as "O-Ringing" the block. You make a groove on the top of the sleeve, that holds a stainless steel wire. The copper deforms where the wire pushes into in, creating a better seal.

My advice is to go MLS, and ARP Headstuds. There are a lot of guys making gobs of power with this combination. Unless you are shooting for higher than 400HP, O-Ringing may not be worth all the extra hassle. (BTW, I believe you have to replace the copper gasket each time you pull the head, in order to get the O-Ring method to seal correctly.)

Craig

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

shouldnt you be replacing the headgasket everytime the head is removed? thats what ive always heard and done i gues

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

remember, these are homemade headgaskets... :o

Well, sort of. They do get lasercut, so it's kind of hightech homemade... :)

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171...abd6b8a8c7.jpg

this is the design I'm going for.

I'm definitely going to be using this for all the other exhaust gaskets, like on the manifold, the turbo and and downpipe...
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178...2a35677c81.jpg

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

I hear copper headgaskets can be high maintenance. My dad ran one on his 510 awhile ago. The key to those is the retorque after so many miles. If you don't do that, they will leak like crazy.

On a side note, what would it cost to make an extra set? I'm building an SR right now also.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

except pennies are made of zinc :1

you also have to remember that just because a gas is hot enough to melt a metal doesnt mean that it will. when that 2000* gas goes through your exhaust port that heat is mostly carried down the exhast while the little that did get transferred to the head is almost instantly dissipated into the surrounding aluminum and then into the water

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Yeah, I've used a SCE copper headgasket on one of my LS motors before and I had to take it out immediately because I was burning, and blowing coolant and oil out. It was a lower c/r gasket that I wanted to use, but after putting a normal MLS Headgasket on, it worked fine so..I wouldn't try using one again.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

@scrubnick:

they cost me R755.81 (ZAR) each to get made. Sorry for only seeing this now, the gaskets is almost done, but can help you out with one, if the price it right for ya... :)



@Burntrubber87

Did you do the prepwork on the gasket, before installing. a clean copper gasket will leak, as it is not soft enough to form into the imperfections of the block and head.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

= 100 bucks

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

+- yes... that's what it cost me to get cut... though materials are included, and it be 1.2mm thick

a full set for a DET cost me 1339.45 wich is .... ermmm... *0.133248 giving $178.48

this will be the HG, Exaust gasket, T25 Turbine inlet and outlet. all 1.2mm c110.

I don't know... is that good?

I looked for places that had them and the only place for me locally is Rezlo and they are 3 times as expensive, and not even copper. (multiplate.)

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Well that pretty much sums up why mine ---- the bed..what exactly is the prep? heat it up or something..? I used a -----ton of copper spray on both sides, it still blew out.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

The mating surfaces must be supper clean and flat. You used copper spray on your copper head gasket?

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Yeah, didn't think it would hurt anything. The motor hadn't overheated, and it did seal with a stock headgasket. I use copper spray on gaskets that I don't put silicone on to hold them on.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

I'm actually looking at a thinner gasket for a one-off build I'm making. I found a place in Cali that has a .81mm gasket for 80 bucks. From what I've been reading from the places that make these, Craig was right in that you must replace the gasket each time you pull the head off if you're using o-rings, which the manufacturer recommends.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Got them gasketset today, came out awesomely delicious, might I say..... :y

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081...5cc2946c5d.jpg

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

hell yea those look good

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

i dunno about the head gasket but the turbo gaskets will work great

i cut my own out of .01 copper and use that. always works. touch of copper spray and you can even re-use em sometimes. lol :)

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

Damn those look good.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255...540028a9c6.jpghttps://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053...e7ca497782.jpg

Looks what I just got delivered....

;D

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

I try and make all the gaskets I can out of copper sheeting that I have laying around and I love it, works great and I always re-use them. I wouldnt try and use it for a headgasket though :X I guess you will have to let us know how it works.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

i had my turbo to manifold full copper gasket blow out on me the other day. once i upped the boost from 10 to 18 it just melted and balled up and dripped on my subframe. not a fan. anywhere else though i would i totally do it. downpipe and exhaust manifold gasket but the turbo/manifold i am not dead set on it just being plain better with no gasket.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

---- gaskets, if there's a gasket between something it has a chance to blow out.

Copper HG's are a bust and should only be used when you have no other options.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

i can see 2000deg combustion temps melting the HG out.

Re: Copper Gaskets... good, bad or uggin fugly
 

I would think that MLS and copper spray is the way to go.

The next best would be copper with a steel ring.

well let us know how it goes.