WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

blew some ringlands with an FMU ( i will die before i use one again...) but anyways decided to go with some new engine management. so picked up a new SAFC II, 460cc injectors, msd BTM, and Innovate wideband 02. The injectors should be here tomarrow, and i was plannin on throwing them in. But for tuning, i was wondering where i should put the wideband 02. because i have an open dumptune right now. Im guessing in the dumptube, because that's the exhaust gasses from the "full throttle" combustions. and even if some of the exhaust is exiting Via downpipe it wont make a difference because its all in "ratio" (the exhaust gasses exiting the dumptube and downpipe have the same A/f Ratio). AM i right? or should i have the dumptube welded before i tune? anyways. let me know.

oh and to start out with the SAFC II at 9 psi with 460cc. I read the "FAQ" in tech to run the same amount of fuel as stock injectors or w/e, but as far as boost. how much % should i go over in relation to rpm and throttle.?

stock are like 210cc ish..

Anyways. never used a SAFC with new injectors before so any help would be appreciated. Im not thinking of trying to tune without a full understanding of everything.

Thanks

Dan.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Dan it goes in your exhaust. Not your dump tube. ;)

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

..... but at full throttle there's more exhaust exiting the dumptube than downpipe. (external wg). and i was wondering if it'd be more effective/accurate.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Tune in part throttle... ;)

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

lol that doesnt anwer my question. but why part throttle?. The SAFC has variable low throttle, and different fuel correction for high throttle.?? but again. i dont know that much about tuning.. keep the feedback coming i guess.

thanks.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

put the damn wideband 02 sensor in the downpipe about 8-12 inches down from the turbo, I would start you afc numbers with like -36 across the board, then let it idle and warm up all the way, then adjust your low throttle setting for 1,000 rpm (idle) untill you get about 15:1 afr's, then start out driving around at part throttle, and adjust the part throttle incriments untill you get between 14:1-16:1 afr's across the board when your cruising around at part throttle, remember that your most important part (low) throttle settings are from 1,000 rpm to about 4-5,000 rpm, because you probably wont do any part throttle driving above 5,000 rpm, so you can just set everything above 5,000 rpm the same as the 5,000 rpm setting, then set your high throttle engaugment point for around 70%, and just like stated above, the lower incriments (1,000 rpm to 3,000 rpm) on high thottle dont mean a whole lot, because you probably wont be at 70+% throttle and spooling the turbo when your below 3,000 rpm, anyway, adjust your high throttle settings at wide open throttle, untill you get between 11.5:1-12.5:1 afr's across the board while your stomping on the gas pedal, if you do what i have told you to do, you will still get decent mpg when your cruising around, and not blow the motor up when boosting, just remember when your tuning idle and part throttle, if its way rivh or lean, it wont damamge the motor, the worst it will do is foul out the plugs if it's too rich, but when you start tuning the WOT in boost, if you see any number on the wideband above 13:1, stop and add fuel before you go any further.....happy boosting ------... ;)

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

wild guess, id say he's not tuning a honda

wideband goes in the downpipe, get it a good distance away from the turbo, less heat, the sensor will last longer.

what makes you think that the excess of exhaust dumped to control boost levels is going to exceed that of what is coming from your exhaust? not likely.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Maybe its just me but i like to conserve gas and get a more efficent streetable tune. Unless your gonna be constantly driving with the gas mashed why would you tune "just" full throttle. :S Check out the FAQ and do the injetor math to find your base setting... Im pretty damn sure its not gonna be -36 but then again me not no math good :1

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

a tuned car is tuned fully, in all throttle ranges, at all engine loads, and at all rpms that the engine is capable of.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

lol so instead of a -36 correction percentage across the board what should i do? yes its a 2.2 toyota celica with 460cc injectors. the stock were like 210cc or something. i thought my 2 pics of my car in the sig/avat. would give it away.. but yeah just a FYI.

Or to rephrase the question... After finding out the right fuel correction for like stock (no boost, just to compensate for the larger injectors) how many % is it common to go over to run rich and "tune down" or (lean out) from? if that makes sense. :P

well let me know

Thanks .

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Hes tunning w/ an afc... Maybe it was just my experience but just tunning part throttle kinda left high cam a lil poopy...But this is just my experience keep in mind. Now on crome, uber, turboedit I agree %110 w/ you. ;D

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

yes -36 is a guess, if you can do the math then you may come up with a better starting number, i only suggested it because its a starting point that will work, its not rocket science to tune an afc for low and high throttle, its sooooo ------- simple, just do it like i said and start making adjustments and watching the wideband, i guarantee you'll make it happen... :y

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

lol thanks for the confidence. boosted_b16. 8)

anyways.

im hoping that the 12 correction points (instead of safc I that had 8 ) make it a little better for tuning. but i have nothing to compare it to lol.

if i went like -30 is that a dramatic increase in fuel compared to -36? like if it was a 14:1 would it go to a 10:1 just from 6 percent? im just curious on like how much a percent actually changes an A/F ratio? im guessing 1% is more of a change the larger injector you use.? is that right? becuase i've never used an safc but kinda have some common sense... just thinking logically. :P

thanks.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Since you have a wideband sensor, you can make the change(s) while the car is idling and see how it affects the air/fuel ratio.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

before reading this here's SOME OF what i have if it helps u help me with my problems.

celica GT 2.2 turbo.
.57 trim
moved from 213cc to 460cc. (read in toyotanation to do this)




alright. installed injectors and setup what i thought was a fairly good start for a tuned safc II. I did like -45 % and increased 1 or 2 percent through 1k intervals. <-- just a rough depiction. anyways. i started it up with logworks started on the laptop and got a reading of like 10.5:1 in IDLE. it was really rich. so i tuned the first fuel correction point on Low Throttle (30%) to -%50. The max i could go. Still yeilded low elevens. So i gave a little gas, maybe 15-20 percent throttle and it was alright for a second as it was at like 11.5:1, but as soon as i let off the gas to shift back to neutral the laptop jumped quickly to like 18-20:1 and then like 18, then back to 10.0:1 as it returned to idle. oh yeah and i forgot to remove the checkvalves. so would that be a problem? I KNOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT USE THEM WITH A SAFC, BUT I JUST FORGOT (but dont htink it would make any difference at idle, or even at boost because the map sensor signal is being intercepted by the SAFC) but i could be wrong.

it seems like i just need smaller injectors. maybe 360cc or something. But the "spiking to really lean" all of a sudden.?? i have no clue/ or guess about that.

would this have anything to do with "sensor type" or having my settings at "4 cyl" and the arrow pointing top right?

Just wondering because i've never used an SAFC before this

Anyways.


let me know what u think

Dan.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

anyone?

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

Get rid of the check valves with the AFC...

(1-(210/460)) = .54 or 54%...i dont even know if you can go that high on a AFC but you would want to be slightly under it anywho...

does this Toyota have a MAF or MAP...i am assuming it came with vehicle specific directions and you followed them to the "T"

might be best if you have someone else drive while you mess with the settings and watch the wideband

start slowly, tune part throttle first and idle and get the hang of it, make sure everything is working nicely and you know what you are doing, gradually increase the load you are putting on the engine will you learn :)

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

yeah but then the 5% injecter latency changes the 54% to 49% (which is in the SAFC fuel correction range; max is %50). and i can get it to idle atabout 11-12. and when i step on it, even with full negative settings im gettin like a 9-10 A/F ratio. wayy to rich. and it runs like ----. So u think i just need smaller injectors? oh and i when i let off throttle i go really really lean. for like a split second.( like a really quick spike to 30:1). is this normaL?

and also i have the "ETC" setting set to 4 cyl, arrow up. Sensor type is Pressure 3 in 3 out.

anyways. let me know what u think.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

sorry to be bitching again. but you know how everything never seems to work out sometimes. :X

So here's the issue.

460cc's in (stock 220cc for sure) High impedence
apexi safc II
Innovate wb o2.
MSD 2 BAr Map Sensor

The 2 bar map sensor helped a lot to lower the voltages and enable me to use less correction.. It dropped the map voltage from 4.555v to 2.250v. So i could tune close to "No correction" (0%). At Zero i wouuld idle at about 13.0. But when i even hit -1% correction my idle sounds really sparatic. like goes from 1800rpm to 1400rpm and then back up in a matter of a second or so. and repeats over and over. And it seems to idle really high (ie :1800-2000) also.

has anyone had this problem? ???

I can tune at postitive %'s fine but i dont really want to for idle because its too rich.

Anyways let me know.

Thanks.

Re: WIDEBAND LOCATION FOR TUNING... UGH..?
 

i'll give somone a cookie if they help me. :o