Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
08-02-2005, 11:26 PM
#1
1.0 BAR
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 230
Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
right so im doin another da6 turbo.. b16a1 engine
going to use the pr3 ecu, and a bin which has been tuned by joseph and i think its b16acrxt's fuel map..
now this bin was tuned on 93 octane gas @ 11:1 on boost, .. over here we only have 96-97 octane but is RON rated.. also it was tuned on small intercooler piping 1.75" = 2" , where as mine is 2.5"
would you think the map will run to lean..
going to use the pr3 ecu, and a bin which has been tuned by joseph and i think its b16acrxt's fuel map..
now this bin was tuned on 93 octane gas @ 11:1 on boost, .. over here we only have 96-97 octane but is RON rated.. also it was tuned on small intercooler piping 1.75" = 2" , where as mine is 2.5"
would you think the map will run to lean..
08-05-2005, 10:29 AM
#4
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
Refer to the Gasoline FAQ for any questions about equivalent octanes, be it RON, MON, or (R+M)/2. I remember reading up about it once, I don't know it off the top of my head, and since it's not a problem I run into with USDM cars running primarily (R+M)/2 pump gas I'm going to shove it into your lap to worry about 
But really, the Gasoline FAQ is a google away, won't be hard to find, and will have a rough and sleazy guide to your answers.
However, some tips:
If you have a bigger IC, this will sidestep a point or so of octane.
I did not use a stepped retard on Chris's car - most people have found that at lower boost (power) immediate ignition retard is not as critical. I used an across the board .75 deg/psi retard, so the total retard at the 2 bar MAP sensor's 14.5 psi limit is going to be more than if I had used a more conventional stepped retard. Chris has a tidbit more power left in the ignition timing, but since it's a light little CRX that is more responsive than a heavy **** car, I chose to sacrafice a couple hp in the name of safety. You also will have that margin of safety when using his .bin as a basemap.
If you are running a larger turbo, there is a good chance you will run leaner. Bigger compressors do lean things out, especially the higher efficiency ones. Minor quirks of your charge piping and IC choice will affect AFRs. BUT. The single biggest factor in leaning things out is on your exhaust side - Chris has a log manifold, if you have a less restrictive merge collector things will lean out; if you have a turbine bigger than a stage 1 T3 turbine wheel with .63 AR housing (normal T3/T04 hybrid has stage three wheel which is significantly larger) then the turbine will be less restricive and things will lean out.
Keep your eyes and ears open. Richard @ Autoserve in Malaysia has run this .bin, says it runs really well on the car they tried it on. His username on pgmfi.org is RPT, you can pester him for the setup on his test pig. Also, a post in the BRE forum or OBD0 VTEC forum on pgmfi about this might bring to light a few other ppl who've used the .bin, or BRE, so far and give you a basis to work with.
Really, though, I bought a Techedge 2C0 wideband for $208 USD assembled and shipped recently, the sensor and cable for it would run you another $50 or $60. You might want to invest in one yourself, they are only getting cheaper all the time.
But really, the Gasoline FAQ is a google away, won't be hard to find, and will have a rough and sleazy guide to your answers.However, some tips:
If you have a bigger IC, this will sidestep a point or so of octane.
I did not use a stepped retard on Chris's car - most people have found that at lower boost (power) immediate ignition retard is not as critical. I used an across the board .75 deg/psi retard, so the total retard at the 2 bar MAP sensor's 14.5 psi limit is going to be more than if I had used a more conventional stepped retard. Chris has a tidbit more power left in the ignition timing, but since it's a light little CRX that is more responsive than a heavy **** car, I chose to sacrafice a couple hp in the name of safety. You also will have that margin of safety when using his .bin as a basemap.
If you are running a larger turbo, there is a good chance you will run leaner. Bigger compressors do lean things out, especially the higher efficiency ones. Minor quirks of your charge piping and IC choice will affect AFRs. BUT. The single biggest factor in leaning things out is on your exhaust side - Chris has a log manifold, if you have a less restrictive merge collector things will lean out; if you have a turbine bigger than a stage 1 T3 turbine wheel with .63 AR housing (normal T3/T04 hybrid has stage three wheel which is significantly larger) then the turbine will be less restricive and things will lean out.
Keep your eyes and ears open. Richard @ Autoserve in Malaysia has run this .bin, says it runs really well on the car they tried it on. His username on pgmfi.org is RPT, you can pester him for the setup on his test pig. Also, a post in the BRE forum or OBD0 VTEC forum on pgmfi about this might bring to light a few other ppl who've used the .bin, or BRE, so far and give you a basis to work with.
Really, though, I bought a Techedge 2C0 wideband for $208 USD assembled and shipped recently, the sensor and cable for it would run you another $50 or $60. You might want to invest in one yourself, they are only getting cheaper all the time.
08-05-2005, 10:00 PM
#5
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 230
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
Yeh, damn true.. wish i had that sorta cash tho.. bein a student sux..
Cheers for that writeup, cleared things up a shitload... mite just add abit of fuel everywhere just for safety then get a a/f reading on the dyno..
Cheers!!!
Cheers for that writeup, cleared things up a shitload... mite just add abit of fuel everywhere just for safety then get a a/f reading on the dyno..
Cheers!!!
08-06-2005, 02:18 AM
#6
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
Add the fuel to the boost portion of the map, which is where things really change around. Buy plenty of spare plugs. Use the stock O2 as best as you can - make sure it's pegged .9 volts or better when WOT - not wholly accurate, but a good rough pass/fail.
08-07-2005, 12:39 AM
#7
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 230
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
ok. .yeh ill get someones wideband just to make certain things are at least half decent..
would you think another 5% fueling over the whole boost section would be sufficient? and the 2bar map sensor is stock correct?
thanks again.
would you think another 5% fueling over the whole boost section would be sufficient? and the 2bar map sensor is stock correct?
thanks again.
08-07-2005, 05:11 PM
#9
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 230
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
Ok sweet as.. So just selecting the Stock map sensor setting ill put the fuel map right for the stock sensor?
Running a RX7 S4 turbo, in a GTSt (RB20det) exhaust housing, equal length manifold , would say itll flow quite well... Ill just chuck 10% fueling on then work back from there. Should do it.
Running a RX7 S4 turbo, in a GTSt (RB20det) exhaust housing, equal length manifold , would say itll flow quite well... Ill just chuck 10% fueling on then work back from there. Should do it.
08-08-2005, 02:27 PM
#10
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Pr3 turbo fuelmap running on shitty gas.
When I did Chris' car, you didn't select the MAP sensor in BRE. You started with a basemap already tweaked for the MAP sensor. You might run into logistical problems if you don't run a GM 2 bar MAP.
