Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Will retarded ignition timing kill piston rings? I am referring specifically to an NA application.

I can only assume that it will not given a safe A/F mixture.

We are talking like 4 degrees less than stock at WOT on an LS with bolt ons.

I have been told that the lack of timing was making the ECU dump fuel and washing down the cylinders.

I don't see how this is possible if the engine was making pretty decent power with this timing map.

???

BTW, this block had about 200K on it.

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

Why would you retard the ignition timing on an N/A LS.

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

The low end 1.8L torque is too much for him to handle and he needs to shift it up top because that's where it belongs, right?

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

I can always count on HMT for some faggot smart ass replies.

I always start off with a P30 basemap. There is a noticeable difference in ignition timing between the VTAK low cam ignition maps and the LS ignition maps.


I should have specified in the original post, but it was a simple question to begin with.

:P

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

Why don't you just copy/paste LS maps?

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

That is what I do now.

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

4 degs won't do much, plus it takes a lot of fuel to start washing cyl walls.

Re: Ignition timing and pisotn rings...
 

That is kind of what I thought.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Medium Threat is correct, as per usual.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Just checking. I didn't think I was completely clueless when it comes to internal combustion engines and electronic fuel injection.

:P

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Next time I am up your way I'll give you the four minute plug reading and peering down the spark plug hole lecture.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

When the hell are you going to be in Kansas City? Lol.

I have a faint idea of how to read plugs, but I am no expert at any facet of tuning by any means.

This whole ordeal started when another local tuner gave me his thoughts on what was going on with this engine.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

I thought you were NE crew? Fuuuuck.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

No sir.

I am part of the nobody cares about the middle of the US crew.

:6

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

JD's you gotta show him how to cut the plugs apart first to read them right :)

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

I have a sawzall.

;D

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Why bother? Otoscopes are cheap.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

I was thinking more of a 4" angle grinder in one hand, hold the spark plug with the other.

I had two KILLER links about reading plugs, didn't post them on D-series because it would have been over most of their heads and just led to 2000 more questions.........

Like JD got about the Y8 timing BS.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Would you mind sharing good sir?

I have read one several times, but I have yet to put that knowledge to practice.

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticle...-pictures.html

Sadly, I don't think anyone in the Honda market here even knows how to read spark plugs.

I could be wrong though.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Sewell, Blundell, Xeno, I, and others do.

My main mojo that I can lay on you, that I don't hear *anywhere* is that sometimes the plug looks like there's trash on it but it's just from a misfire or wear. The definitive answer is looking at the face of the piston witha bright flashlight; if the carbon coat looks like you've poked holes through it with a pin, so that you can see pinpricks of shiny aluminum, you are experiencing detonation and timing needs to be backed off in that cylinder.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Right, I wasn't referring to your guys' part of the country. I was referring to the KC area.

Good to know. That makes sense.

I assume a good penlight would work well for peering into the combustion chamber? A borescope would be awesome, but being a full time student won't allow for such expensive toys.

I really do need to play around with reading spark plugs and det cans. I built a det can setup, but have only used it once.

Any good way to determine optimal ignition timing off of the dyno? I assume that reading the spark plugs alone will not yield optimum results. Is this correct?

I generally seem to get a pretty solid tune on the street. Keep in mind that I pretty much only tune NA cars.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

that dragstuff link and the others at the bottom is them.

I got it thru www.yellowbullet.com a very big drag racing web site.

Lets just say Billy Glidden and J. Hump are memebers, ALOT of varied knowledge there.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

borescopes are needed for some cars where either the plug entry is at a wack ass angle or you can't stick your head in there (scooby) but for a normal B or D I wouldn't use a borescope even if I had one. Straight drop in on the piston crowns, use a good power LED pen or flashlight and FTW!


If you define optimum as your engine doesn't come apart and you get 90%+ of possible power, then reading plugs works.

Re: Ignition timing and piston rings...
 

Fair enough.

JD, thanks for the replies so far. I would buy your ass a beer, but I doubt I'll be out to the east coast any time soon.

Is watching the fuel consumption a good way gauging what the engine is wanting for ignition timing. Say you get the A/F stabilized to a safe range, add ignition timing and the A/F gets leaner. Add timing until this trend stops. If you add timing, and the A/F gets richer, then pull timing.

Is that correct?