The 'Hack'
06-19-2009, 06:24 PM
#1
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD, Australia
Posts: 7
The 'Hack'
Hi. since its my first post, ill introduce myself. My name is Justin, i live in Australia & drive an '00 EK1 Civic hatchback, D16Y4 engine.
Now, i have been reading, researching & what not about going turbo. i know what i need, want to get, etc. Im going to use the AFC Hack for a couple of reasons. I know im going to get flamed about it, so here are my reasons why im, well, sorta forced to use the AFC.
Here is an ecu pinout for P2k ecu. The Y4 runs batch fire injection instead of sequential, & the dizzy is also a little different to a typical OBD2 dizzy. Now, in order for me to run a chipped OBD1 ecu, im going to need a special conversion harness, & that i know of only 1 company in australia makes the harness & its not cheap either. I will also need to grab either an OBD1 or 2 complete dizzy, wire the injectors, dizzy etc. i could wire an OBD1 ecu in myself, but for me its too risky considering its my 1 & only daily.
Now, the harness isnt cheap either, $250aud for the harness then ontop of that, probably another $100 - $150aud for the complete dizzy. then $200aud for the chipped ecu. thats not a bad price TBH, but then comes the tuning. i know i have 2 options. tune it myself or local tuner. in Australia where i live, no-one has experience in tuning honda specific engines. Yeah, there are tuners, 1 or 2, but i would much rather get it tuned from a tuner that works reguarly with honda motors. The only honda tuners around, are about a days drive away, & tuning isnt cheap either. so getting it tuned is outta the question.
Next would be tune it myself, i would be very interested in doing this. But, ill need laptop, & the xenocron starter kit. by the time you factor in exchange rate, this values to over $500aud, thats not including the laptop. so $500aud for a laptop, so thats $1000 ontop of converting to OBD1 ecu. thats $1500aud+ just for a running, tuned, chipped ecu.
AFC Neo, $400aud, the ability to tune it on the fly, easy to use & no extra parts required besides a wideband. Yes, i do know its not the best tuning tool for forced induction. I do know there is a possibility of my motor blowing using this. i will also factor in, the Y4 in australia can be found virtually anywhere for cheap, most people have upgraded to B-series over here. ive seen a long block go for about $200aud. if the Y4 wasnt so cheap to replace, i wouldnt even be considering the AFC.
I dont plan for big power either, 180-190whp ill be very happy with, stock internals. i feel the AFC will be best suited for my budget. Once i get the ball rolling, i may consider saving my pennies for chipped ecu, but only time will tell.
Now, i have been reading, researching & what not about going turbo. i know what i need, want to get, etc. Im going to use the AFC Hack for a couple of reasons. I know im going to get flamed about it, so here are my reasons why im, well, sorta forced to use the AFC.
Here is an ecu pinout for P2k ecu. The Y4 runs batch fire injection instead of sequential, & the dizzy is also a little different to a typical OBD2 dizzy. Now, in order for me to run a chipped OBD1 ecu, im going to need a special conversion harness, & that i know of only 1 company in australia makes the harness & its not cheap either. I will also need to grab either an OBD1 or 2 complete dizzy, wire the injectors, dizzy etc. i could wire an OBD1 ecu in myself, but for me its too risky considering its my 1 & only daily.
Now, the harness isnt cheap either, $250aud for the harness then ontop of that, probably another $100 - $150aud for the complete dizzy. then $200aud for the chipped ecu. thats not a bad price TBH, but then comes the tuning. i know i have 2 options. tune it myself or local tuner. in Australia where i live, no-one has experience in tuning honda specific engines. Yeah, there are tuners, 1 or 2, but i would much rather get it tuned from a tuner that works reguarly with honda motors. The only honda tuners around, are about a days drive away, & tuning isnt cheap either. so getting it tuned is outta the question.
Next would be tune it myself, i would be very interested in doing this. But, ill need laptop, & the xenocron starter kit. by the time you factor in exchange rate, this values to over $500aud, thats not including the laptop. so $500aud for a laptop, so thats $1000 ontop of converting to OBD1 ecu. thats $1500aud+ just for a running, tuned, chipped ecu.
AFC Neo, $400aud, the ability to tune it on the fly, easy to use & no extra parts required besides a wideband. Yes, i do know its not the best tuning tool for forced induction. I do know there is a possibility of my motor blowing using this. i will also factor in, the Y4 in australia can be found virtually anywhere for cheap, most people have upgraded to B-series over here. ive seen a long block go for about $200aud. if the Y4 wasnt so cheap to replace, i wouldnt even be considering the AFC.
I dont plan for big power either, 180-190whp ill be very happy with, stock internals. i feel the AFC will be best suited for my budget. Once i get the ball rolling, i may consider saving my pennies for chipped ecu, but only time will tell.
Last edited by Y4 Warrior; 06-19-2009 at 06:27 PM.
06-26-2009, 04:38 PM
#2
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 277
sounds like you did your homework. AFC's work for low boost budget setups, theres not alot of resolution compared to chipped computer (turboedit,chrome) and you cant scale for different sized injectors as well. also, you cant ad in boost retard, and if the AFC is only dependent on map/maf scaling, your timing will be great if there was no boost, but in boost its known for breaking piston ring lands due to detonation.
also afc tunes tend to "walk" meaning its a constant struggle to keep steady afr's because the computer is trying to see specific AFRs. theres plenty more variables that AFC's don't cover.
all that being said, with enough time and tweaking, an aftermarket ignition controller of some type, on a map system you can usually get a decent tune.... and depending on how adaptive the factory computer is and how it reacts to different conditions will really be the judge in the end if an AFC will hold a good tune on a MAF system.
i boosted a 06 sentra se-r spec v for a buddy. he cheaped out and used an AFC it made good power and pulled mid-high13s but he wasnt happy. after a year on 7 psi he decided to up the boost, and blew the ringlands out not 2 months later. it allways held 11.5-12.0 afrs even up to 15 psi, but the first 3 or 4 psi would allways lean way out. i dont know why exactly but i think it was that little area that did it.
also that computer on that car adjusted itself to srt 4 injectors swapped w/o any adjustments to the afc
keep it in the back of your mind that no matter how well this setup works at your desired hp level it will be much better with reprogrammable computer,
if you really want to get it done for cheap, you can go for mega-squirt and modify your factory harness to work with your custom ecu (you can build it yourself saving costs) hell you can even use the same batch fire injection system.
regardless if you research enough you could possibly do the conversion with much less money, possibly enough to afford a cheap computer.
Hell, those new net-books are $300AUD i don't see why that wouldn't be perfect for tuning.
also afc tunes tend to "walk" meaning its a constant struggle to keep steady afr's because the computer is trying to see specific AFRs. theres plenty more variables that AFC's don't cover.
all that being said, with enough time and tweaking, an aftermarket ignition controller of some type, on a map system you can usually get a decent tune.... and depending on how adaptive the factory computer is and how it reacts to different conditions will really be the judge in the end if an AFC will hold a good tune on a MAF system.
i boosted a 06 sentra se-r spec v for a buddy. he cheaped out and used an AFC it made good power and pulled mid-high13s but he wasnt happy. after a year on 7 psi he decided to up the boost, and blew the ringlands out not 2 months later. it allways held 11.5-12.0 afrs even up to 15 psi, but the first 3 or 4 psi would allways lean way out. i dont know why exactly but i think it was that little area that did it.
also that computer on that car adjusted itself to srt 4 injectors swapped w/o any adjustments to the afc
keep it in the back of your mind that no matter how well this setup works at your desired hp level it will be much better with reprogrammable computer,
if you really want to get it done for cheap, you can go for mega-squirt and modify your factory harness to work with your custom ecu (you can build it yourself saving costs) hell you can even use the same batch fire injection system.
regardless if you research enough you could possibly do the conversion with much less money, possibly enough to afford a cheap computer.
Hell, those new net-books are $300AUD i don't see why that wouldn't be perfect for tuning.
Last edited by rexsk8er; 06-26-2009 at 04:40 PM.
06-26-2009, 06:08 PM
#3
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD, Australia
Posts: 7
Yeah, there's not alot of Y4s getting around with ecu mods cause they're such a bastard to work around. So i cant determine whether the AFC hack will be a hit or miss, the only way knowing is doing it, & if in fact the hack doesnt work out quite so well, there will be information out there about it specifically with this engine.
I have looked into megasquirt. again a little out of my budget, but thats not to say ill never upgrade from the hack.
i dont plan to go anymore than 8psi. for an internally stock engine, i dont want to go too high, the main reason why im only opting for around 190whp. I dont need alot of horsepower, just something that gets up & boogies...
I have looked into megasquirt. again a little out of my budget, but thats not to say ill never upgrade from the hack.
i dont plan to go anymore than 8psi. for an internally stock engine, i dont want to go too high, the main reason why im only opting for around 190whp. I dont need alot of horsepower, just something that gets up & boogies...
07-07-2009, 11:35 PM
#7
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 81
Some other things that may be helpful. In the world of '80s turbo dodge cars, the stock map sensor is a 2bar. Going to a 3 bar map sensor and 40% bigger injectors along with a FPR the car will run and drive. In combination with an AFC I could see something like that working well.
Also, make sure to adjust your base timing lower with any hack like that. Your around town driveablility will suffer, but you will be getting a safer spark timing on the top end.
My friend is running 11's in a 16g powered DSM with an AFC, if he can, you can.
Also, make sure to adjust your base timing lower with any hack like that. Your around town driveablility will suffer, but you will be getting a safer spark timing on the top end.
My friend is running 11's in a 16g powered DSM with an AFC, if he can, you can.
07-10-2009, 05:14 PM
#10
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD, Australia
Posts: 7
Some other things that may be helpful. In the world of '80s turbo dodge cars, the stock map sensor is a 2bar. Going to a 3 bar map sensor and 40% bigger injectors along with a FPR the car will run and drive. In combination with an AFC I could see something like that working well.
Also, make sure to adjust your base timing lower with any hack like that. Your around town driveablility will suffer, but you will be getting a safer spark timing on the top end.
My friend is running 11's in a 16g powered DSM with an AFC, if he can, you can.
Also, make sure to adjust your base timing lower with any hack like that. Your around town driveablility will suffer, but you will be getting a safer spark timing on the top end.
My friend is running 11's in a 16g powered DSM with an AFC, if he can, you can.
I thought about using an adj FPR to kinda fine tune the fuel with the AFC. I see alot of the AFC users without adj FPRs, that would be one of the first items i would use in conjunction with an AFC.
Ignition timing, the max im going to retard is 4 degrees. I know it will be sluggish, but i have a turbo to make up for that...
