CEL #16
10-10-2006, 12:35 AM
#21
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by jagojon3
I know you're tryin to be all hot with your shrink wrap, but deep inside you know you're having dreams of electrical tape 
10-10-2006, 01:59 AM
#22
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Re: CEL #16
There's 8 pins going on that plug but I only see 5 wires from the resistor box. I'm not understanding how this works.
Where does that plug you added to the resistor box go?
btw the cut wire madmax referred to was a spare wire made with 2 pins connecting the power distribution to the resistor box.
Where does that plug you added to the resistor box go?
btw the cut wire madmax referred to was a spare wire made with 2 pins connecting the power distribution to the resistor box.
10-10-2006, 07:42 AM
#23
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Re: CEL #16
I dont have to...and Honda-Tech didnt tell them too.
WHY?
Because I know that stock HONDA saturated injectors are 12-13 ohms of resistance across the two pins
I know that stock HONDA peak 'n hold injectors are 2-3 ohms of resistance across the two pins (DSM injectors too)
Then in 1st grade, I leanred math...
I also know that resistance is additive. Add a 3 ohm resistor to a 10 ohm resistor you get 13 ohms...
WHY?
Because I know that stock HONDA saturated injectors are 12-13 ohms of resistance across the two pins
I know that stock HONDA peak 'n hold injectors are 2-3 ohms of resistance across the two pins (DSM injectors too)
Then in 1st grade, I leanred math...
I also know that resistance is additive. Add a 3 ohm resistor to a 10 ohm resistor you get 13 ohms...
Originally Posted by MADMAX
Because HT told them to. :P
Using 10 ohm resistors will not provide enough current to P/H injectors. This means that they may not open all the way.
Honda uses 6.xx ohm resistor boxes for a reason. This provides the correct current to the injectors.
Go check some OBD0 and 1 boxes. They will be around 6 some ohms.
Using 10 ohm resistors will not provide enough current to P/H injectors. This means that they may not open all the way.
Honda uses 6.xx ohm resistor boxes for a reason. This provides the correct current to the injectors.
Go check some OBD0 and 1 boxes. They will be around 6 some ohms.
10-10-2006, 02:58 PM
#24
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by xenocron
I dont have to...and Honda-Tech didnt tell them too.
WHY?
Because I know that stock HONDA saturated injectors are 12-13 ohms of resistance across the two pins
I know that stock HONDA peak 'n hold injectors are 2-3 ohms of resistance across the two pins (DSM injectors too)
Then in 1st grade, I leanred math...
I also know that resistance is additive. Add a 3 ohm resistor to a 10 ohm resistor you get 13 ohms...
WHY?
Because I know that stock HONDA saturated injectors are 12-13 ohms of resistance across the two pins
I know that stock HONDA peak 'n hold injectors are 2-3 ohms of resistance across the two pins (DSM injectors too)
Then in 1st grade, I leanred math...
I also know that resistance is additive. Add a 3 ohm resistor to a 10 ohm resistor you get 13 ohms...
Read what I wrote. NOT ENOUGH CURRENT.
Learning addition won't help you understand that using a 10 ohm resistor will lower the current in the circuit. In a series circuit the current is the same through every resistance. If you increase the resistance, then the current through each resistance will go down.
So using 10 ohms will lower the current through the injectors.
P&H injectors are diesgned to use higher current than Sat injectors. Honda knows this because they know that the strenght of an electromagnet is dependant on the number of turns of wire and the current flow. It also depends on the permeability of the material, but will keep that constant. Now to get a lower resistance in the same space requires less turns or thicker wire (thus reducing resistance). Increasing wire thickness will also reduce the number of turns since the diameter is larger.
Now lowering the resistance has created a weaker electromagnet. What can we do to increase the strength again? Ah yes current. Increasing the current flow will bring the electromagnet strength back up.
This is why you don't match total resistances when using P&H injectors. This is also why Honda resistor boxes are 6 ohms.
10-10-2006, 03:51 PM
#25
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Re: CEL #16
Thats great and all, but the OBD1 ECUs have injector drivers in them that are designed to run an injector that has a total resistance of 12-13 ohms...if you use a lower total resistance, the increase in current through that circuit will eventually burn that driver out.
This is why it is still possble to run Low Impedence injectors WITHOUT a resistor box...but this WILL burn out the injector drivers.
Read what I wrote. NOT ENOUGH CURRENT.
Learning addition won't help you understand that using a 10 ohm resistor will lower the current in the circuit. In a series circuit the current is the same through every resistance. If you increase the resistance, then the current through each resistance will go down.
So using 10 ohms will lower the current through the injectors.
P&H injectors are diesgned to use higher current than Sat injectors. Honda knows this because they know that the strenght of an electromagnet is dependant on the number of turns of wire and the current flow. It also depends on the permeability of the material, but will keep that constant. Now to get a lower resistance in the same space requires less turns or thicker wire (thus reducing resistance). Increasing wire thickness will also reduce the number of turns since the diameter is larger.
Now lowering the resistance has created a weaker electromagnet. What can we do to increase the strength again? Ah yes current. Increasing the current flow will bring the electromagnet strength back up.
This is why you don't match total resistances when using P&H injectors. This is also why Honda resistor boxes are 6 ohms.
This is why it is still possble to run Low Impedence injectors WITHOUT a resistor box...but this WILL burn out the injector drivers.
Originally Posted by MADMAX
Read what I wrote. NOT ENOUGH CURRENT.
Learning addition won't help you understand that using a 10 ohm resistor will lower the current in the circuit. In a series circuit the current is the same through every resistance. If you increase the resistance, then the current through each resistance will go down.
So using 10 ohms will lower the current through the injectors.
P&H injectors are diesgned to use higher current than Sat injectors. Honda knows this because they know that the strenght of an electromagnet is dependant on the number of turns of wire and the current flow. It also depends on the permeability of the material, but will keep that constant. Now to get a lower resistance in the same space requires less turns or thicker wire (thus reducing resistance). Increasing wire thickness will also reduce the number of turns since the diameter is larger.
Now lowering the resistance has created a weaker electromagnet. What can we do to increase the strength again? Ah yes current. Increasing the current flow will bring the electromagnet strength back up.
This is why you don't match total resistances when using P&H injectors. This is also why Honda resistor boxes are 6 ohms.
10-10-2006, 04:14 PM
#26
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by xenocron
Thats great and all, but the OBD1 ECUs have injector drivers in them that are designed to run an injector that has a total resistance of 12-13 ohms...if you use a lower total resistance, the increase in current through that circuit will eventually burn that driver out.
This is why it is still possble to run Low Impedence injectors WITHOUT a resistor box...but this WILL burn out the injector drivers.
This is why it is still possble to run Low Impedence injectors WITHOUT a resistor box...but this WILL burn out the injector drivers.
I never said it is okay to run P&H injectors w/o a resistor box. I stated that 10 ohm resistors will not provide enough current to drive P&H injector correctly.
With the honda resistor box of 6 ohms the current output is still way within the operating range of the transistor output. It will not burn out. It would if you ran just a P&H injector, yes.
Go look at the driver spec sheet. The maximun output current of the collector is 6A. With a pulsing input, the max is 10A.
The reason that P&H injectors without resistors burn out the driver's is because of heat. The output current is within spec, but you would need to provide cooling like a heatsink or maybe more. Although running a P&H injector with that much current would burn out the coil.
10-10-2006, 05:49 PM
#27
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by whiterice
There's 8 pins going on that plug but I only see 5 wires from the resistor box. I'm not understanding how this works.
Where does that plug you added to the resistor box go?
Where does that plug you added to the resistor box go?
10-10-2006, 09:19 PM
#28
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by Cray91
The three four wires carrying 12v are just all going to the red wire on the box. I guess I could have just let them hang.
10-10-2006, 09:25 PM
#29
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Re: CEL #16
Originally Posted by MADMAX
There is only one wire that carries battery voltage. The rest go to other sensors. You need to have those fourwires connected together.
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