1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

Hi,
just got back from tuning
2 hours on the dyno(took a while cuz the car kept knocking out their wideband's)

I'm pretty happy with the results. Hp especially.
tq seems a bit low, but it is a 1.5L afterall

I was wondering what you thought about this though,
I completely forgot that I had my base(dizzy) timing set to 12deg btc, when stock is 16deg,
the tuner thought it was 16 and tuned with that in mind..
afterwards once I realized this, I was already off the dyno, but they turned the dizzy up to 15deg, car felt noticeably better actually.

I'm curious what some of you guys with tuning experience think about this,
I'm guessing it's making more power/tq than the chart shows now that theres more advance running thru it.
would it be worth going back for a returne? $$ wise I probably shouldn't.. but it would be cool to make more power..
Also if you look at the AF ratio, theres more leaning out that could be done on the top end,
and they said that there is more to be made up there, but we were already on the dyno for 2hours and i'm not a rich man!!

Any ideas on how I could make more torque, especially up top,
would leaning it out do it, or ignition tuning?

Just lmk any thoughts you have.

heres the chart/specs
92 cx hatch
jdm d15b vtec(all stock)
JRSC at 9psi
tunertoyz/stealthmode injectors(450cc)
B&M FPR/gauge
I/E stock header
http://home.comcast.net/%7Etadman3d/d15bdynA.JPG

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

nice! Good power with the jrsc :). Your afr isn't that rich up top. 11.5 is a pretty safe afr to stick with. I doubt you will notice much difference at all between 11.5 and 12:1. Now adding back some timing could definintly gain you some more power. Post up your timing maps.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

Keep in mind if you upped your timing that will eat up some fuel. You may be a bit leaner now than on the dyno.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

What tuner doesn't know what the timing is set at before he tunes it. :P

But, if you can atleast let him hook up a wideband to it for a street tune just to regulate it. But I would say you are still safe, if he didn't mess too much with the timing and it was already pretty close to where it needed to be.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

Revving a stock D15b to 7800?

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

haha yea checking the timing is a good thing. My friend swore up and down that he set the timing correctly on his jdm h22 and i couldn't figure out why i couldn't keep his car from pinging with conservative timing and a rich afr. It turns out his timing was way advanced because he was aiming for the wrong mark. After that it ran great :P

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

OK good info!

First off,
yeah I would have liked it if they would have caught my timing while on the dyno..
but I don't really hold it against them, they are good tuners, and had alot of stuff to deal with that day.
He did say multiple times to make sure I had my car running right before coming in.

Oh aftwards I was asking about how he tuned timing, and from what I could gather he retarded it alot as it got up there.
and It got to around 19deg, so I guess that was 19deg total timing? And he did that under the assumption that dizzy timing was 16deg.

Also, SOHCmshue, your story about your guy with his h22 brings up another question,
if the AFR is safe, how do know that it's pinging/detonating?

And yeah, they did say that if I wanted I could go back and hook up a portable wideband to it, just to make sure things are safe.
But they thought that probably bumping the dizzy back up to 15 like we did only leaned up the AFR by like .2
but AGAIN it makes me wonder, if you can ping with a proper AFR, what is the benefit of checking that AFR again with a wideband?
I'd like to go up 1 more deg, back to 16 at the dizzy, cuz I could definetely feel improvement when we went up to 15.

Thanks!

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

i could tell his car was pinging because it was very audible. The afr didn't have anything to do with his pinging. It was because he was running waaaaaay too much timing advance because the dizzy was adjusted wrong.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

How bad was his dizzy adjusted?
I'm alil scared cuz I cannot hear pinging. loud exhaust and a supercharger SCCREAAAMIN y'kno
no EGT gauge either ..

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

you would know if you were pinging, just roll with the timing set like it is untill you can afford to hit the dyno again, it shouldnt take 2 hours to re-tune the timing

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

it was pinging very audibly. I really doubt that you would be pinging with the timing set where it is right now. My friend's car was way off. He set the timing gun to 15* and lined up the distributor so the middle of the three lines was lined with the pointer(usually you aim for this line if you set the timing gun to 0*...like if you have a non adjustable timing gun). He should have been aiming for the single white line.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

not sure if i just missed it, but what are you using to tune? and yeah, adding 4° base timing via the distributor will make a BIG difference in the timing maps, and you should prolly get it retuned when you get a change. as far as your a/f ratio, i wouldn't lean it out any more, like mentioned 11.5 is pretty safe, and you won't notice much if any buy just leaning it out .5 i would however invest in a good header if i was you, you would prolly notice a nice difference with a good header considering your shoving all that air in there and it can only get out as fast it can flow throught the shitty stock header. one easy way to check for detonation (not all detonation is audible) is to check your plugs. do a wot pull in 3rd gear, then shut the car off at the top of the pull and coast to a stop, then pull your plugs and check for any signs of detonation, if there is some, i would back the dizzy back down until i could get back on the dyno unless you have access to the tuning tools you need to make the changes your self, if so, just keep pulling a little timing and checking your plugs until they look good. seriously though, get a good header ;) nice numbers though :)

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

ok thanks guys,
one more thing about the timing though.
I understand that adding 4degrees(dizzy) to a setup thats not tuned for that would be a huge difference.

but heres the thing.
even though it was set to 12 when they tuned it,
they thought, and tuned around the assumption that, it was set to 16deg!

SO then bringing it back up to (or close to) 16deg at the dizzy afterwards, would that still be such a huge change?
or would it more or less run as it should?

I'll do some plug checking, still have to decide between 3 things though,
hav'em check it on the street with a WB(cheap or free)
a couple runs on the dyno(around 60)
retune on the dyno(around 200)
and i'm prettymuch tapped out for cash now..

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

Yeah what kind of management are you using? I hope not just a FPR. And your tuner doesn't sound too good, from what you say it sounds like you need a new one. And a good header will help. Kamikaze's are good, hytech's are better, but cost quite a bit more. What size exhaust are you using. If it's smaller than 3"s you'll find some power there. I'm assuming you're using a smaller pulley? If so, at those revs the charger is losing efficiency big time. And I'd lean it out as much as possible. I think it'd be worth it. Hope we helped. I love supercharged D's.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

what was your total timing in the maps. If they were really turning the timing up in the maps as far as they could beofore you were pinging then it probably wouldn't be a good idea to set the dizzy any higher. If they weren't doing this then they probably just did a regular step retard and didn't really tune your timing maps.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

thats what I don't get,
how do you turn the timing up till it starts to ping when there is no device capable of monitoring pint/knock,
only thing monitoring anything was the wideband..
And my car is FAR FAR FAR FAR too loud to hear pinging.
I know, I melted a piston on my last motor from detonation, and didn't hear a thing until my car lost power and shut off.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

Engine management is 450cc's, bm FPR/gauge, and Crome/socketed ecu(they used their ecu with a romulator during the session).
Using a 3.4" pulley, stock is 3.8.. it makes 9-10psi, well within the blowers efficiency range, I dont know if you're trying to say
a smaller pulley will have a different effect than a bigger crank at the same boost or something? Pretty sure boost is boost tho

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

OK I just did a few runs and examined my spark plugs.
I'm running 1step colder denso's.

This is how they looked(info good for ppl in the know about checking plugs).
the groundstrap had it's color change point very far down the strap, just slightly before the strap joins the threads of the sparkplug, but there
was alittle buffer there..

the porcelain was bone white, most of hte plugs were completely white,
but a couple I could notice very few VERY tiny black spots, looked like soot or something.. hard to tell
if they were just part of the porcelain or not.

the top threads were jet black, from what I read in some sparkplug reading articles you want those to have good color but not black..
but honestly I don't know if I've ever seen a honda plug NOT be jet black, and I've seem my AFR it is good.

I was mainly looking for signs of detonation or too much advancement.
from the look of the ground strap, i'm probably advanced as far as I can go before things get sketchy.
Those little black spots on the porcelain worry me though, not apparent enough to prove detonation but can't be taking chances.

I'm thinking maybe move to a 2step colder

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

There's so much friction that the effect of "boost" isn't enough to overcome it. It's like how you lose power when you turn on the AC.

As far as knock detection goes, there's the J&S safeguard, which can also retard timing at detonation, and the MSD knock alert. The only problem is that you're going to have alot of other noise from the supercharger, as opposed to a NA combination. But with proper calliberation it can work.

One thing no one looks into is lobe timing. Those M45s are capable of 15psi with the stock pulleys. I don't know how hard it is to adjust, but you might want to look into that too.

Re: 1.5 suprcharged dyno and tuning Q's.
 

i'm sure on the dyno you could probably hear pinging because you'd have your hood popped and everything. At least it would be easier than on the street.