Whats wrong with f-series?
10-26-2006, 10:14 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Whats wrong with f-series?
This has been on my my mind for a while. People do h-series swaps into their eg civics because it has 2 cams and greater displacement than b's. But then there is the problem of their sleeves right? You can't run forged internals without sleeving an h series right? So then why don't people swap in f-series? You can run forged internals without sleeving right? and so what if it only has one cam, thats no problem for the guys making 400whp d vtaks. Right? Is there some internal ailment the f-series has? Something that is prone to fail? Maybe their heads suck flow wise? But the vtec f series heads can't flow that bad right? I'm pretty sure an h22 swap kit would swap an f22 straight in wouldnt it? It just seems like it would make a pimp *** sleeper. 2.2l turbo w/forged internals in an 2000lb car, done for as cheap as building a b series
P.I.M.P
Or am I totally misguided here? Enlighten me.
P.I.M.POr am I totally misguided here? Enlighten me.
10-26-2006, 10:19 PM
#2
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,751
Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
If I didn't have so much on my plate, and didn't have the LS/Vtec N/A Half built I would toss the F22 into my EF when my Accord rots/Rusts itself out!!!
I was thinking about a swap like this about 2weeks ago, but I have enough motors laying around already and don't need more projects.
I was thinking about a swap like this about 2weeks ago, but I have enough motors laying around already and don't need more projects.
10-26-2006, 10:24 PM
#3
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Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
My cousin turboed his Accord, F22A1
I wouldnt mind doing an F22A6 project. Look on cb7tuner, good bit of guys over there who have done up f22's.
Most kids who do the H series are probably doing it because hands down the h22 owns the f22 in specs. But you can do an F22 head on an H22 block, my buddy Tim wants to do that for a project (and he has already done it in the past).
I dont see the problem, but most people probably want to go from SOHC to DOHC.
I wouldnt mind doing an F22A6 project. Look on cb7tuner, good bit of guys over there who have done up f22's.
Most kids who do the H series are probably doing it because hands down the h22 owns the f22 in specs. But you can do an F22 head on an H22 block, my buddy Tim wants to do that for a project (and he has already done it in the past).
I dont see the problem, but most people probably want to go from SOHC to DOHC.
10-26-2006, 10:27 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 42
Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
Until not too long ago, the forged route wasn't cheap for the F-series motors. People that had them wanted to go the way everyone else did and throw in an H. Lots more people are building their F-series motors now, and a few companies have started making lower priced forged internals for them. There are a few people on everything-honda.com making over 300whp with their f's with just internals and turbo. I know of one a year or so ago that made over 300whp on stock internals. They have potential. Just not as cheap as other honda motors to build. I think Bisi just built a N/A F22 making insane hp numbers. Not sure what the build consisted of, but I think he said it was like 15:1 comp or some crazy ---- like that. Think he might have had an H22 head on it also. Will have to see if I can find the post.
10-26-2006, 10:39 PM
#5
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Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
the problem I had with mine was I could'nt tune and it was'nt very forgiving(ringlands broke), piston melted ont he second one. I know they can last witha good tune and not too much boost. But when I wanted to build the f22 it was super hard to find decent parts at a decent price, probe industrys was the only company I could find that sold decent priced rods for it. Also I've heard that the f22 is'nt balanced very well. I think people don't swap them because the dseries make nearly as much power, have way more info out there, and you don't need a mount kit and different shift linkage to go from one dseries to another.
10-26-2006, 10:56 PM
#6
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Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
If you can put an h22 head on an f22 block, then whats the point of having an hseries at all? (for turbo anyway) So the many issue is aftermarket support then? I guess thats the problem with anything that isn't a b-series honda eh? There has to be other options for decent pistons though right? What are we talkin right now for a set of forged pistons or rods for an f22? Cuz it all sounds pretty damn good still. Even without the forged pistons it seems like you could make some pretty impressive numbers, especially with an h22 head. 300 hp and a fatty torque curve to back it up would be pretty impressive in an eg hatch
10-26-2006, 10:59 PM
#7
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Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
Ease of use for one.
Theres a few other differences between the H series and F series blocks that make the H series better (if we're assuming stock, or if we're going forged internals if we're assuming they're both sleeved). I'm unsure of all of them though.
But yeah, for the regular old accord guy, throwing some forged pistons/rods in his F22 block and throwing an H22 head on it would be awesome.
Theres a few other differences between the H series and F series blocks that make the H series better (if we're assuming stock, or if we're going forged internals if we're assuming they're both sleeved). I'm unsure of all of them though.
But yeah, for the regular old accord guy, throwing some forged pistons/rods in his F22 block and throwing an H22 head on it would be awesome.
10-26-2006, 11:50 PM
#8
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,028
Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
The difference between an F22 bottom end and an H22 bottom end is like a B16 versus a B18A/B. Isn't the stroke a lot longer on the F22 than an H22? I know they always complained about a bad rod/stroke ratio and side loading....which is all a bunch of BS IMO.
10-27-2006, 02:36 AM
#9
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Re: Whats wrong with f-series?
f22 blocks can handle 300whp easy on a stock block. there are plenty of guys on cb7tuner running 270whp on their stock block and its been like that for a long *** time too.
f22/h22 is a good swap if done right. just like an ls/vtec, you have to add oil squirters. it has been done before, and proven to make tremendous amount of tq and hp. ----, this frank will pwn any ------- h22.
the problem is the crank. for one, i highly suggest to NOT rev it past 7k, especially if you're boosting and if you dont have oil squirters.
the swap is also only worth it if you have hook ups. if you cant get everything you need for cheaper than an h23 would cost, then you might as well go h23.
you dont need vtec to make power with the f/h engines. you could do just a DOHC head swap. the outcome will be pretty much an h23, but with iron sleeves. ----, an f22/h23 with forged rods and pistons can handle 400whp no problem, on stock sleeves! this of course, with good tuning.
the market for f22 parts are become available more and more, and becoming cheaper. it IS a great engine and i really dont see why people dont do it.
i mean ----, just look at bisi's setup. why didnt he go with a b series?
f22/h22 is a good swap if done right. just like an ls/vtec, you have to add oil squirters. it has been done before, and proven to make tremendous amount of tq and hp. ----, this frank will pwn any ------- h22.
the problem is the crank. for one, i highly suggest to NOT rev it past 7k, especially if you're boosting and if you dont have oil squirters.
the swap is also only worth it if you have hook ups. if you cant get everything you need for cheaper than an h23 would cost, then you might as well go h23.
you dont need vtec to make power with the f/h engines. you could do just a DOHC head swap. the outcome will be pretty much an h23, but with iron sleeves. ----, an f22/h23 with forged rods and pistons can handle 400whp no problem, on stock sleeves! this of course, with good tuning.
the market for f22 parts are become available more and more, and becoming cheaper. it IS a great engine and i really dont see why people dont do it.
i mean ----, just look at bisi's setup. why didnt he go with a b series?
