Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
11-20-2006, 08:56 PM
#61
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 0
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
There's a reason ladder bars are designed with the loops around the rod end.
I am suprised that no company has offered this safety feature on their designs. Granted, again, they are not designed for stret use, but it would provide an extra margin of safety on a compnent so crucial to the stability of the front suspension.
This isn't the first case of a, "race part," failing on a street car. I have seen an extremely underengineered lower control arm for 3rd gen f-bodies fail. Someone did an FEA on the desigh and it wasn't pretty to say the least. Personally, I had contemplated getting a set of these bars, but I could never find satisfactory information or pictures.
I am suprised that no company has offered this safety feature on their designs. Granted, again, they are not designed for stret use, but it would provide an extra margin of safety on a compnent so crucial to the stability of the front suspension.
This isn't the first case of a, "race part," failing on a street car. I have seen an extremely underengineered lower control arm for 3rd gen f-bodies fail. Someone did an FEA on the desigh and it wasn't pretty to say the least. Personally, I had contemplated getting a set of these bars, but I could never find satisfactory information or pictures.
11-20-2006, 08:58 PM
#62
!! UNCONFIRMED EMAIL !!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,656
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
Originally Posted by sikcrx89
YES im on a budget considering i have a wife and child to pay for. YES i need bars,YES i want to stay alive and i would buy them but they are rediculacly overpriced!!!!
i realize that this is Homemadeturbo.com and that people here are cheap bitches (---- where you think i got my custom title from?) but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... some things in life you can cheap out on, some things you cant... always give it some good thought to make sure which ones are which, and look over the product (search) to make sure its the one you need (weather its the cheap POS, or the quality unit)...
11-20-2006, 09:02 PM
#63
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,015
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
Originally Posted by turbohf
you get what you pay for... like me, i went to Walmart and bought a $35 DVD player...does it work? ehh sometimes it skips, freezes, is just a piece of ----... but at the end of the day its fucked up i cant watch Oceans 12 for the millionth time. not like a traction bar that falls apart on the freeway when im doing a 120mph pull or something... or a bullet proof vest that doesnt stop a bullet. a $250 SSAC turbo that only last 15k miles. or a Hyundai that last a couple years.......
i realize that this is Homemadeturbo.com and that people here are cheap bitches (---- where you think i got my custom title from?) but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... some things in life you can cheap out on, some things you cant... always give it some good thought to make sure which ones are which, and look over the product (search) to make sure its the one you need (weather its the cheap POS, or the quality unit)...
i realize that this is Homemadeturbo.com and that people here are cheap bitches (---- where you think i got my custom title from?) but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... some things in life you can cheap out on, some things you cant... always give it some good thought to make sure which ones are which, and look over the product (search) to make sure its the one you need (weather its the cheap POS, or the quality unit)...
11-20-2006, 09:17 PM
#64
!! UNCONFIRMED EMAIL !!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,656
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
11-20-2006, 09:22 PM
#66
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 263
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
Full race's offering...
JK's offering...
Both pics stolen from hondahatertech. Thanks to those who took the pics.
Anyway, the design looks pretty similar. The actual JK crossmember is a great piece. It looks very sturdy and mounts in multiple places. The radius rods are of a very sturdy design as well, without the aluminum that Full-Chafe is offering. Obviously, these rods simply need to eliminate movement to-and-fro, and avoid binding, while offering adjustability. Both designs do this.
Now, the difference comes in when you talk about lower control arm attaching hardware. Full race's offering utilizes a 2-bolt bracket, whereas JK offers a one bolt bracket. JK had done extensive testing on the bracket he chose for the bars, and they had stood up to everything he threw at them. He was very confident in the ability of the bars to hold up to anything. I remember reading about this.
Also, people have mentioned that the bolts supplied are grade 5 or lower. This shouldn't be an issue for anyone who understands torque values. I did a quick search to turn up some torque values for specific bolts. For those not familiar with bolt sizing, the first number is the actual diameter(minus about .006-.007" for the clearance to thread a nut on) of the fastener, whereas the second number is threads per inch...
SAE Grade 5 SAE Grade 8
Dry Lubricated Dry Lubricated
1/4 - 20 8 6.3 12 9
1/4 - 28 10 7.2 14 10
5/16 - 18 17 13 24 18
5/16 - 24 19 14 27 20
3/8 - 16 30 23 45 35
3/8 - 24 35 25 50 35
7/16 - 14 50 35 70 50
7/16 - 20 55 40 80 60
1/2 - 13 75 55 110 80
1/2 - 20 85 65 120 90
9/16 - 12 110 80 150 110
9/16 - 18 120 90 170 130
5/8 - 11 150 110 210 160
5/8 - 18 170 130 240 180
3/4 - 10 260 200 380 280
3/4 - 16 300 220 420 310
7/8 - 9 430 320 600 450
7/8 - 14 470 350 670 500
1 - 8 640 480 910 680
1 - 14 720 540 1,020 760
I'm not familiar with the size either uses for bolts, but you can see a rather large difference in torque values from grade5 to grade8, not to mention the dry/lubed values. I really see NO problem with the choice of hardware, as far as I can tell, when torqued correctly. However when someone gets all "he-man" on them, they'll snap. Torque(foot pounds) is an approximate amount of rotary force to get about the right preload for the bolt not to loosen up.
I would have picked up one of JK's bars if I had not found the jimfab set. If you want some "extra" piece of mind, go spend a few bucks on some grade8 hardware. Go to the hardware store. They've got lots of stuff to pick from. Seriously.
-josh-
JK's offering...
Both pics stolen from hondahatertech. Thanks to those who took the pics.
Anyway, the design looks pretty similar. The actual JK crossmember is a great piece. It looks very sturdy and mounts in multiple places. The radius rods are of a very sturdy design as well, without the aluminum that Full-Chafe is offering. Obviously, these rods simply need to eliminate movement to-and-fro, and avoid binding, while offering adjustability. Both designs do this.
Now, the difference comes in when you talk about lower control arm attaching hardware. Full race's offering utilizes a 2-bolt bracket, whereas JK offers a one bolt bracket. JK had done extensive testing on the bracket he chose for the bars, and they had stood up to everything he threw at them. He was very confident in the ability of the bars to hold up to anything. I remember reading about this.
Also, people have mentioned that the bolts supplied are grade 5 or lower. This shouldn't be an issue for anyone who understands torque values. I did a quick search to turn up some torque values for specific bolts. For those not familiar with bolt sizing, the first number is the actual diameter(minus about .006-.007" for the clearance to thread a nut on) of the fastener, whereas the second number is threads per inch...
SAE Grade 5 SAE Grade 8
Dry Lubricated Dry Lubricated
1/4 - 20 8 6.3 12 9
1/4 - 28 10 7.2 14 10
5/16 - 18 17 13 24 18
5/16 - 24 19 14 27 20
3/8 - 16 30 23 45 35
3/8 - 24 35 25 50 35
7/16 - 14 50 35 70 50
7/16 - 20 55 40 80 60
1/2 - 13 75 55 110 80
1/2 - 20 85 65 120 90
9/16 - 12 110 80 150 110
9/16 - 18 120 90 170 130
5/8 - 11 150 110 210 160
5/8 - 18 170 130 240 180
3/4 - 10 260 200 380 280
3/4 - 16 300 220 420 310
7/8 - 9 430 320 600 450
7/8 - 14 470 350 670 500
1 - 8 640 480 910 680
1 - 14 720 540 1,020 760
I'm not familiar with the size either uses for bolts, but you can see a rather large difference in torque values from grade5 to grade8, not to mention the dry/lubed values. I really see NO problem with the choice of hardware, as far as I can tell, when torqued correctly. However when someone gets all "he-man" on them, they'll snap. Torque(foot pounds) is an approximate amount of rotary force to get about the right preload for the bolt not to loosen up.
I would have picked up one of JK's bars if I had not found the jimfab set. If you want some "extra" piece of mind, go spend a few bucks on some grade8 hardware. Go to the hardware store. They've got lots of stuff to pick from. Seriously.
-josh-
11-20-2006, 09:31 PM
#67
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,751
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
The above picture is even old. No longer do we make the 1bolt design.
I would like to state:
"I did not know that the design was flawed"
Read my post before. I had run these traction bar on my own car, researched them, tested them and came up with the final design. I was not knowingly making a product that could break, that would be stupid for the business and completely pointless if I wanted the name to carry. And it was not the actual bar that was breaking, hardware was the weakness.
As soon as the first problem arose we went back to work. LCA bracket were redesign to plase less stress on the hiems, Class 10.9 bolts were purchaced, and 17,000lb(the same or higher rating then others) Cromoly hiems were source compared to the previous 12,000lb Alloy Steel.
All those who are worried of their bars being unsafe will be contacted of you have the older design.
I would like to state:
"I did not know that the design was flawed"
Read my post before. I had run these traction bar on my own car, researched them, tested them and came up with the final design. I was not knowingly making a product that could break, that would be stupid for the business and completely pointless if I wanted the name to carry. And it was not the actual bar that was breaking, hardware was the weakness.
As soon as the first problem arose we went back to work. LCA bracket were redesign to plase less stress on the hiems, Class 10.9 bolts were purchaced, and 17,000lb(the same or higher rating then others) Cromoly hiems were source compared to the previous 12,000lb Alloy Steel.
All those who are worried of their bars being unsafe will be contacted of you have the older design.
11-20-2006, 09:34 PM
#68
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
The l-con bars *had* the same problem on the Ef's. They had a 2 bolt bracket, but he made them out of aluminum. After hearing about someone breaking one (from another retailer), I just told people that they didn't fit EF's. The EG's and EK's never had an issue. I think maybe a stiffer set of bushings would be the right way to go on the EF's.
Hotrex, how's that manifold business going, ******.
Hotrex, how's that manifold business going, ******.
11-20-2006, 10:08 PM
#69
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,898
Re: Traction bars...Brands/opinions/experience
Originally Posted by JK_Motorsports
A flaw has has come up and has not been solved in the current models and now moving back toward past models.
As far anyone who stated we knew about a fatal flaw and kept on selling them, you make me feel like we are in 3rd grade and the old rumor that was whispered in 1 persons ear at one end of the table is completely different from what the final person at the other end of the table heard. Not pointing fingers at anyone because i can totally understand how it would happen, but anyone who knows me knows that i take customer service very seriously as well maintaining quality products. JK Motorsports has worked with us to improve their products strength, affordability and appearance, all which have had a lot of time put into them already, and that is what we like to see. Tomorrow we will be contact via email and through forums with everyone with the old design. Feel free to email us or pm us before then and we will be happy to get your current shipping information to get you the proper parts.
For those who have made educated and unbiased comments, in favor or against the bars, I will say thanks once again and I as well as others do appreciate your input.
