the never ending project takes a turn...
07-22-2007, 09:09 AM
#62
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 752
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
mate, i'd never touched a standalone before either. my only + was having read a LOT about ms before starting to do anything. thats a must.
i had 8 days before my flight out of nz, and a ms on my desk. me and a friend wired it from scratch in 2 days, got it running in a few hours, and tuned for boost and idle in a further one hour it was still pig rich through the rest of the map though. it would have run straight away, but i had made a few mistakes with wiring (coils were on wrong cylinders, and cas had no power feed).
its really easy. stock ecus seem to me to be more of a pain in the **** than a bunch of new wires that you KNOW the purpose of.
the only part thats remotely tricky is the ign table, and there are plenty of guides on that. my ign table SUCKED big time, and it was still mega fast. 100kpa and above were all 15deg adv everywhere, and below that tapered to 30deg everwhere. its not super critical.
and most importantly, its HELL FUN!! :-)
is that buddy holy in your avatar?
get a ms, you wont regret it.
and like the other guy said, the ecu you cant map is a waste of time if you plan to mod and mod...
if you plan to run it similar to a stock dsm, then a stock ecu is probably sweet, but i still reckon ms anyway.
i had 8 days before my flight out of nz, and a ms on my desk. me and a friend wired it from scratch in 2 days, got it running in a few hours, and tuned for boost and idle in a further one hour it was still pig rich through the rest of the map though. it would have run straight away, but i had made a few mistakes with wiring (coils were on wrong cylinders, and cas had no power feed).
its really easy. stock ecus seem to me to be more of a pain in the **** than a bunch of new wires that you KNOW the purpose of.
the only part thats remotely tricky is the ign table, and there are plenty of guides on that. my ign table SUCKED big time, and it was still mega fast. 100kpa and above were all 15deg adv everywhere, and below that tapered to 30deg everwhere. its not super critical.
and most importantly, its HELL FUN!! :-)
is that buddy holy in your avatar?
get a ms, you wont regret it.
and like the other guy said, the ecu you cant map is a waste of time if you plan to mod and mod...
if you plan to run it similar to a stock dsm, then a stock ecu is probably sweet, but i still reckon ms anyway.
07-22-2007, 10:25 AM
#63
3.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,785
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
I'll take the plunge but than at this rate it's gonna finish after the stealth shuttle. I'm just one for getting ---- done right away and settling for ---- to get it on the road. Anyone have a 1G 4G harness as I'll need the connectors from it to make a harness?
-fe3tcourier-Just curious on your setup. How bad does your intake heatup with it made from steel instead of aluminium? I need to flip the throttle body to the otherside but if it's not that bad then I'll just make a sheet metal intake manifold cause I really like your manifold. Not to mention it shouldn't be that bad since I don't have to worry about injector bungs as they are in the head instead like in most intake manifolds.
-yes that's Buddy Holly. The one and only.
-I guess I wasn't gonna do awhole lot to this engine but even with my VR4 I constantly hitting the fuel cut going on to the highway and little ---- like that. Then to pass that it's either another damn piggyback ontop of another piggyback. Not to mention all that ---- adds up and your still on a stock ecu. Yeah you can chip a eprom ecu but you see what eproms go for? I had one like a few months ago and sold it for 200 shipped which is still fairly cheap when I found what they go for not even chipped or socketed. Then DSMlink is expensive ontop of that. Wowzers... So megasquirt it'll be.
-fe3tcourier-Just curious on your setup. How bad does your intake heatup with it made from steel instead of aluminium? I need to flip the throttle body to the otherside but if it's not that bad then I'll just make a sheet metal intake manifold cause I really like your manifold. Not to mention it shouldn't be that bad since I don't have to worry about injector bungs as they are in the head instead like in most intake manifolds.
-yes that's Buddy Holly. The one and only.
-I guess I wasn't gonna do awhole lot to this engine but even with my VR4 I constantly hitting the fuel cut going on to the highway and little ---- like that. Then to pass that it's either another damn piggyback ontop of another piggyback. Not to mention all that ---- adds up and your still on a stock ecu. Yeah you can chip a eprom ecu but you see what eproms go for? I had one like a few months ago and sold it for 200 shipped which is still fairly cheap when I found what they go for not even chipped or socketed. Then DSMlink is expensive ontop of that. Wowzers... So megasquirt it'll be.
07-22-2007, 01:08 PM
#65
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
Ignition maps for a speed density 4G63 is not a problem. Look at DS-Map, those boys have it all laid out for you. 
If this weren't HMT, I'd offer to fly out there and wire/tune your car for free if you paid expenses. But... airfare>MS.
If this weren't HMT, I'd offer to fly out there and wire/tune your car for free if you paid expenses. But... airfare>MS.
07-22-2007, 03:01 PM
#66
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 752
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
not hot at all, the constant supply of chilled air from the big cooler takes care of that, and the fact that there is nothing hot close, and that its seperated from the head by four rubber hoses. i'm not one who believes that the boundary layer getting ever so slightly warm as it passes really matters. the bulk of the air moves past without touching it. add this to the fact that its isolated, and that steel isnt as good a conductor as ally anyway, and that its painted and paint is an insulator, and its a non issue. my only concern was weight, and its just not that heavy. an ally one might have been a bit lighter, but not a lot. if like me you only have a mig, go for your life, i dont regret it at all.
something interesting came up on the ms forums too recently, some guys with really small plenums were having accel enrich problems... they had small normal throttles on them. i have a monster, and mines totally fine. turns out its not a throttle size thing, its the ratio between throttle size and volume in behind the throttle. so my huge plenum combined with the big throttle works really well! :-) just something to keep in mind when designing yours. id personally keep the back wall far as poss away from the runner ends too, as that helps guarantee an even amount of air in each. that and throttle positioning.
you wont regret ms. id say go v3 for the board, and ms2 if you wanna use big injectors. people have 550s idling and passing emissions on ms1e though. and ms1 has much more io, and some features that they wont be implementing in ms2 because of lack of use in ms1.
if i did it all again, i'd buy the full kit. i just ordered a board and chip and collected the other parts locally, it saved me about 100 nz or more, but cost me endless hours translating the USA specific part numbers to international ones...
something interesting came up on the ms forums too recently, some guys with really small plenums were having accel enrich problems... they had small normal throttles on them. i have a monster, and mines totally fine. turns out its not a throttle size thing, its the ratio between throttle size and volume in behind the throttle. so my huge plenum combined with the big throttle works really well! :-) just something to keep in mind when designing yours. id personally keep the back wall far as poss away from the runner ends too, as that helps guarantee an even amount of air in each. that and throttle positioning.
you wont regret ms. id say go v3 for the board, and ms2 if you wanna use big injectors. people have 550s idling and passing emissions on ms1e though. and ms1 has much more io, and some features that they wont be implementing in ms2 because of lack of use in ms1.
if i did it all again, i'd buy the full kit. i just ordered a board and chip and collected the other parts locally, it saved me about 100 nz or more, but cost me endless hours translating the USA specific part numbers to international ones...
07-22-2007, 05:16 PM
#67
3.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,785
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Ignition maps for a speed density 4G63 is not a problem. Look at DS-Map, those boys have it all laid out for you.
If this weren't HMT, I'd offer to fly out there and wire/tune your car for free if you paid expenses. But... airfare>MS.
If this weren't HMT, I'd offer to fly out there and wire/tune your car for free if you paid expenses. But... airfare>MS.
What's this DS-Map you speak about JD? Enlighten me... Hopefully I'm selling the NT block for a hundred more then I paid for it and found a good Turbo longblock for 150....in southwestern MN which is a good 8 hour round trip.
07-22-2007, 11:58 PM
#68
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
08-02-2007, 12:16 AM
#69
3.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,785
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
Well not much of an update besides I picked up a turbo shortblock for some old wheels I had two weeks ago. Then picked up some EVO8 pistons and cams for dirt cheap. Pistons will go right in but the my 1G rods need to be worked alittle as the EVO rods won't fit. Just the same as putting 2G pistons on 1G rods. Factory forged pistons for 85 shipped and then 60 for the machine work from Mr Weir. 
But here's a little visual teaser...
Dixies chicks don't know nothing about wide open spaces...
I could fit my entire forearm from the radiator support to the motor mount which is still another two inches to the block. Feels like I'm working on my old civic again with so much space in the engine bay.
50/50...
stock thermostat housing still fit and no oil pan clearance problems as I'm about an inch or two behind the crossmember
only issue I met so far was the oil filter want to sit right where stock passenger side engine mount is. No biggy though cause it's coming out I'm making new mounts to sit further back on the frame rails.
T4 60-1 clears and no issues should arise with the downpipe or chargepiping besides moving the alternator to the otherside of the block and ditching the power steering pump. Moving the alternator isn't that hard as they make a bracket to do that right now.
then random pics from my vacation in June...where rock and roll was born
where soul music was born...yes that's yours truely...
oh man Stax's Records is in a pretty hairy part of Memphis. One place I wouldn't want to be when the sun goes down. Hell it was kinda sketchy around 3pm when this was taken. Bums walking around and one big black dude with dreads chilling with a baseball bat and I don't think he was going to play some baseball. lol. Oh and then Cooter's Place in Nashville right outside of the Opryland grounds. I missed seeing Bo Duke in person by like 2 hours.
But here's a little visual teaser...Dixies chicks don't know nothing about wide open spaces...
I could fit my entire forearm from the radiator support to the motor mount which is still another two inches to the block. Feels like I'm working on my old civic again with so much space in the engine bay.
50/50...
stock thermostat housing still fit and no oil pan clearance problems as I'm about an inch or two behind the crossmember
only issue I met so far was the oil filter want to sit right where stock passenger side engine mount is. No biggy though cause it's coming out I'm making new mounts to sit further back on the frame rails.
T4 60-1 clears and no issues should arise with the downpipe or chargepiping besides moving the alternator to the otherside of the block and ditching the power steering pump. Moving the alternator isn't that hard as they make a bracket to do that right now.
then random pics from my vacation in June...where rock and roll was born
where soul music was born...yes that's yours truely...
oh man Stax's Records is in a pretty hairy part of Memphis. One place I wouldn't want to be when the sun goes down. Hell it was kinda sketchy around 3pm when this was taken. Bums walking around and one big black dude with dreads chilling with a baseball bat and I don't think he was going to play some baseball. lol. Oh and then Cooter's Place in Nashville right outside of the Opryland grounds. I missed seeing Bo Duke in person by like 2 hours.
08-02-2007, 01:20 AM
#70
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,380
Re: the never ending project takes a turn...
Originally Posted by stillnoturbo
Well not much of an update besides I picked up a turbo shortblock for some old wheels I had two weeks ago. Then picked up some EVO8 pistons and cams for dirt cheap. Pistons will go right in but the my 1G rods need to be worked alittle as the EVO rods won't fit. Just the same as putting 2G pistons on 1G rods. Factory forged pistons for 85 shipped and then 60 for the machine work from Mr Weir. But here's a little visual teaser...
Dixies chicks don't know nothing about wide open spaces...
I could fit my entire forearm from the radiator support to the motor mount which is still another two inches to the block. Feels like I'm working on my old civic again with so much space in the engine bay.
50/50...
stock thermostat housing still fit and no oil pan clearance problems as I'm about an inch or two behind the crossmember
only issue I met so far was the oil filter want to sit right where stock passenger side engine mount is. No biggy though cause it's coming out I'm making new mounts to sit further back on the frame rails.
T4 60-1 clears and no issues should arise with the downpipe or chargepiping besides moving the alternator to the otherside of the block and ditching the power steering pump. Moving the alternator isn't that hard as they make a bracket to do that right now.
then random pics from my vacation in June...where rock and roll was born
where soul music was born...yes that's yours truely...
oh man Stax's Records is in a pretty hairy part of Memphis. One place I wouldn't want to be when the sun goes down. Hell it was kinda sketchy around 3pm when this was taken. Bums walking around and one big black dude with dreads chilling with a baseball bat and I don't think he was going to play some baseball. lol. Oh and then Cooter's Place in Nashville right outside of the Opryland grounds. I missed seeing Bo Duke in person by like 2 hours.
But here's a little visual teaser...Dixies chicks don't know nothing about wide open spaces...
I could fit my entire forearm from the radiator support to the motor mount which is still another two inches to the block. Feels like I'm working on my old civic again with so much space in the engine bay.
50/50...
stock thermostat housing still fit and no oil pan clearance problems as I'm about an inch or two behind the crossmember
only issue I met so far was the oil filter want to sit right where stock passenger side engine mount is. No biggy though cause it's coming out I'm making new mounts to sit further back on the frame rails.
T4 60-1 clears and no issues should arise with the downpipe or chargepiping besides moving the alternator to the otherside of the block and ditching the power steering pump. Moving the alternator isn't that hard as they make a bracket to do that right now.
then random pics from my vacation in June...where rock and roll was born
where soul music was born...yes that's yours truely...
oh man Stax's Records is in a pretty hairy part of Memphis. One place I wouldn't want to be when the sun goes down. Hell it was kinda sketchy around 3pm when this was taken. Bums walking around and one big black dude with dreads chilling with a baseball bat and I don't think he was going to play some baseball. lol. Oh and then Cooter's Place in Nashville right outside of the Opryland grounds. I missed seeing Bo Duke in person by like 2 hours.
BTW, Rene isnt one of us. He is a Salvadorian. Kinda like a delorian but not...
