liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
01-28-2008, 08:44 PM
#21
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,579
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
Originally Posted by random-strike
its not possible for the US to grow enough of anything to supply our fuel needs. so its basically never going to work
01-28-2008, 09:00 PM
#23
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Your mom's panties
Posts: 3,696
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
I'm far from a hippy dude. And I never said stop eating meat. What I said was stop polluting your body with McDonalds and Taco Bell and you don't need to have a meat at every sitting. Baby steps, people. No one with any sense is saying do all this ---- by tomorrow.
Exactly. A little bit of work, a homemade still, a completely legal and easy to attain alcohol for fuel license, and bam... you have fuel to do anything. Cut the grass, heat your house (and at the same time add humidity), build a 500whp D without race gas, etc.
Originally Posted by c0mpl3x
sugar (starch), water, yeast. warm, low light area for a while. distill. voila, alcohol!
01-28-2008, 09:03 PM
#24
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 828
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
yea plus alot of people never think about public transport when debating fuel consuption, i drive 100 miles every day to work and back and would love to give up my daily driver in return for a bus pass or a train/tram pass, that way i could just have the civic for weekend fun and not have to worry about driving when the weather is bad, you know we could really learn alot from europe, especially when you compare their bullet trains to our gay amtrack bullshit.
01-28-2008, 09:18 PM
#25
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 0
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
We cant just grow a bunch of crops/corn. We did that before the 30's and pissed everyone in the world off since we can grow food so cheaply and no one can compete with us (the reason why europe bans "genetically modified food", even though they're not doing it themselves). The government subsidizes farmers to not grow on half their land just to cut food production down, so the price of food is completely artificial and completely subsidized by the government. Ethanol is just another way for the farmers to cash in on subsidies and the government to raised taxes to pay for the farmers to grow a bunch of ---- we don't need :1
01-29-2008, 12:36 AM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 676
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
Welcome to 3 years ago. This is nothing new. Honestly, this current situation in energy is a lose lose. Everyone talks about the price of gasoline going up and up, but rarely do they talk about how much ethanol is going up and up. The fact it became federally mandated a few years ago to use E10 artificially inflated the price of "gasoline" quite a bit as we were not equipped to produce so much ethanol at that point. I mean from a number of perspectives ethanol sucks. It doesn't have a lot of energy, it isn't very efficient to produce, it grows on top of the land(use of land resource), and we used to supply a ton of corn to other countries and now we just keep it ourselves at a lower cost to make ethanol out of. The good points are it is a renewable resource that burns cleaner and reduces our independance on the rest of the world. We are one of the few nations that can grow corn, so it actually puts us in a unique place in the market. China and other countries are shopping to Brazil and other places to get ethanol from and we can get it from ourselves. It keeps us out of future supply and demand issues on a global level that we have currently with oil.
If you want to bitch about this, you should also bitch about how car fuel economy hasn't increased in the last 30 years. Cars that were getting 30mpg get 32mpg. 30 years of technological advance and fuel economy has remained the same. I can't feel too badly for people who drive gas guzzlers and laugh at fuel economy and instead focus on a cool radio or awesome navigation system then bitch it is going to cost them $90 to fill their tank up. 20 years of gas prices not going up finally caught up to us and then we decided to go to war with Iraq and minimize their oil production. What did you think was going to happen?
In short, in the short term as far as energy costs are concerned, we are fucked. We can make an impact in the long term if we make wise decisions. Right now we are using ethanol to supplement the fact oil is getting too expensive and too "rare". Clearly we hope to move to using more and more ethanol if oil prices keep increasing. We won't be able to eat corn anymore because we will be using them to fuel our cars though. That will have a huge effect on the global economy. The best thing we can do is use ethanol as a crutch to get us less dependent on oil to ease our transition to another long term fuel solution. Unless someone develops a new fuel out of no where or hydrogen somehow becomes efficient to make, I see plug in hybrids with engines that run on gasoline/ethanol being heavily used over the next 50 years.
If you want to bitch about this, you should also bitch about how car fuel economy hasn't increased in the last 30 years. Cars that were getting 30mpg get 32mpg. 30 years of technological advance and fuel economy has remained the same. I can't feel too badly for people who drive gas guzzlers and laugh at fuel economy and instead focus on a cool radio or awesome navigation system then bitch it is going to cost them $90 to fill their tank up. 20 years of gas prices not going up finally caught up to us and then we decided to go to war with Iraq and minimize their oil production. What did you think was going to happen?
In short, in the short term as far as energy costs are concerned, we are fucked. We can make an impact in the long term if we make wise decisions. Right now we are using ethanol to supplement the fact oil is getting too expensive and too "rare". Clearly we hope to move to using more and more ethanol if oil prices keep increasing. We won't be able to eat corn anymore because we will be using them to fuel our cars though. That will have a huge effect on the global economy. The best thing we can do is use ethanol as a crutch to get us less dependent on oil to ease our transition to another long term fuel solution. Unless someone develops a new fuel out of no where or hydrogen somehow becomes efficient to make, I see plug in hybrids with engines that run on gasoline/ethanol being heavily used over the next 50 years.
01-29-2008, 12:48 AM
#29
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,983
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
Originally Posted by signorelli21
k, 1 ton of hemp bio mass can render 100 gallons of fuel, each acre of land can produce 10 tons of hemp in 4 months,
so thats like 3000 gallons of fuel per year for just one acre of farmland, you can do the math on how many acres of farmland exist in the country and all but i live next to kansas which has several hundred square miles (theres 680 acres in a square mile) of pure farmland, so sure we might not be able to supply our current demand, but we could make a big dent.
so thats like 3000 gallons of fuel per year for just one acre of farmland, you can do the math on how many acres of farmland exist in the country and all but i live next to kansas which has several hundred square miles (theres 680 acres in a square mile) of pure farmland, so sure we might not be able to supply our current demand, but we could make a big dent.
Originally Posted by c0mpl3x
sugar (starch), water, yeast. warm, low light area for a while. distill. voila, alcohol!
01-29-2008, 01:02 AM
#30
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: liberals found a way to raise taxes without actually raising it
Originally Posted by Inquisition
Welcome to 3 years ago. This is nothing new. Honestly, this current situation in energy is a lose lose. Everyone talks about the price of gasoline going up and up, but rarely do they talk about how much ethanol is going up and up. The fact it became federally mandated a few years ago to use E10 artificially inflated the price of "gasoline" quite a bit as we were not equipped to produce so much ethanol at that point. I mean from a number of perspectives ethanol sucks. It doesn't have a lot of energy, it isn't very efficient to produce, it grows on top of the land(use of land resource), and we used to supply a ton of corn to other countries and now we just keep it ourselves at a lower cost to make ethanol out of. The good points are it is a renewable resource that burns cleaner and reduces our independance on the rest of the world. We are one of the few nations that can grow corn, so it actually puts us in a unique place in the market. China and other countries are shopping to Brazil and other places to get ethanol from and we can get it from ourselves. It keeps us out of future supply and demand issues on a global level that we have currently with oil.
If you want to bitch about this, you should also bitch about how car fuel economy hasn't increased in the last 30 years. Cars that were getting 30mpg get 32mpg. 30 years of technological advance and fuel economy has remained the same. I can't feel too badly for people who drive gas guzzlers and laugh at fuel economy and instead focus on a cool radio or awesome navigation system then bitch it is going to cost them $90 to fill their tank up. 20 years of gas prices not going up finally caught up to us and then we decided to go to war with Iraq and minimize their oil production. What did you think was going to happen?
In short, in the short term as far as energy costs are concerned, we are fucked. We can make an impact in the long term if we make wise decisions. Right now we are using ethanol to supplement the fact oil is getting too expensive and too "rare". Clearly we hope to move to using more and more ethanol if oil prices keep increasing. We won't be able to eat corn anymore because we will be using them to fuel our cars though. That will have a huge effect on the global economy. The best thing we can do is use ethanol as a crutch to get us less dependent on oil to ease our transition to another long term fuel solution. Unless someone develops a new fuel out of no where or hydrogen somehow becomes efficient to make, I see plug in hybrids with engines that run on gasoline/ethanol being heavily used over the next 50 years.
If you want to bitch about this, you should also bitch about how car fuel economy hasn't increased in the last 30 years. Cars that were getting 30mpg get 32mpg. 30 years of technological advance and fuel economy has remained the same. I can't feel too badly for people who drive gas guzzlers and laugh at fuel economy and instead focus on a cool radio or awesome navigation system then bitch it is going to cost them $90 to fill their tank up. 20 years of gas prices not going up finally caught up to us and then we decided to go to war with Iraq and minimize their oil production. What did you think was going to happen?
In short, in the short term as far as energy costs are concerned, we are fucked. We can make an impact in the long term if we make wise decisions. Right now we are using ethanol to supplement the fact oil is getting too expensive and too "rare". Clearly we hope to move to using more and more ethanol if oil prices keep increasing. We won't be able to eat corn anymore because we will be using them to fuel our cars though. That will have a huge effect on the global economy. The best thing we can do is use ethanol as a crutch to get us less dependent on oil to ease our transition to another long term fuel solution. Unless someone develops a new fuel out of no where or hydrogen somehow becomes efficient to make, I see plug in hybrids with engines that run on gasoline/ethanol being heavily used over the next 50 years.
gasoline forever. oil is not rare. but it is expensive
