JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
02-14-2009, 09:08 PM
#52
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
Originally Posted by stealthiskey
give a two sentence summary of why adjustability is bad.
02-14-2009, 09:20 PM
#54
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
No one's denounced Penske's adjusters, and Dennis Grant did say the Koni adjusters were functional as long as the dyno operator adjusted them and the end user never touched them. What bandwagon?
02-14-2009, 09:35 PM
#55
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 308
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
What the artical provided was unbiased hard scientific data to prove that a majority(not all) of products put out by some of the most popular and overpriced manufactures, your spending your money on a function that for all intensive purposes DOES NOT WORK. (or doesn't work as intended or how intended with any consistancy or accuracy.)
Here's my two sentence answer:
Adjustability is GREAT if all you need it for is to be able to claim you have it.
Adjustability FAILS if you need it to function how it's supposed to.
02-15-2009, 03:11 AM
#56
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
Originally Posted by stealthiskey
This thread is disgusting:
"Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: THE ADJUSTERS ON YOUR SHOCKS ALMOST CERTAINLY DO NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK THEY DO. Unless you have something high-end, like a Penske, and you've taken the time to clock the adjuster window on the shock dyno, the ***** on your shocks cannot be trusted to work. Most shocks of the same model DO NOT match each other on the same adjuster setting, and each click DOES NOT make the same change in force. Most shocks make very large changes per click near the "full hard" setting and make very little to no change near the "full soft" setting."
1. So the adjusters don't do what I think they do, and yet he never explains what they actually do.
2. They adjustments aren't linear. Who gives a flying ---- if they are linear? That's why ---- is measured in "clicks" and not some quantifiable unit.
"Happy Fun Fact: Formula One cars use non-adjustable shocks. They get away with this by running the car on a seven-post shaker rig that plays back suspension movements recorded previously on that track, using the data the collect on the rig to tune the shocks, and once the shocks are tuned, those are the shock forces they use at the race. Once they're right, they're right."
This would lead me to believe that unless you have a "seven-post shaker rig that plays back suspension movements recorded previously on that track" adjustable shocks are the next best thing?
"Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: THE ADJUSTERS ON YOUR SHOCKS ALMOST CERTAINLY DO NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK THEY DO. Unless you have something high-end, like a Penske, and you've taken the time to clock the adjuster window on the shock dyno, the ***** on your shocks cannot be trusted to work. Most shocks of the same model DO NOT match each other on the same adjuster setting, and each click DOES NOT make the same change in force. Most shocks make very large changes per click near the "full hard" setting and make very little to no change near the "full soft" setting."
1. So the adjusters don't do what I think they do, and yet he never explains what they actually do.
2. They adjustments aren't linear. Who gives a flying ---- if they are linear? That's why ---- is measured in "clicks" and not some quantifiable unit.
"Happy Fun Fact: Formula One cars use non-adjustable shocks. They get away with this by running the car on a seven-post shaker rig that plays back suspension movements recorded previously on that track, using the data the collect on the rig to tune the shocks, and once the shocks are tuned, those are the shock forces they use at the race. Once they're right, they're right."
This would lead me to believe that unless you have a "seven-post shaker rig that plays back suspension movements recorded previously on that track" adjustable shocks are the next best thing?
sum that up is 2 sentences.......
02-15-2009, 01:24 PM
#57
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 100
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
the same way you tune cars?
1. There's no formula for ignition timing, you just start from conservative and go degree by degree until it is RIGHT.
2. Adjust the shocks click by click until they are right, it doesn't matter if each click changes the compression or rebound by a different amount, just find the setting that gives the best results.
Granted shock dynos are great for this, but this is hmt, and it IS possible to "street tune" your shocks. (Dirt bike riders have been doing it for decades)
1. There's no formula for ignition timing, you just start from conservative and go degree by degree until it is RIGHT.
2. Adjust the shocks click by click until they are right, it doesn't matter if each click changes the compression or rebound by a different amount, just find the setting that gives the best results.
Granted shock dynos are great for this, but this is hmt, and it IS possible to "street tune" your shocks. (Dirt bike riders have been doing it for decades)
02-15-2009, 01:46 PM
#58
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
Originally Posted by stealthiskey
the same way you tune cars?
1. There's no formula for ignition timing, you just start from conservative and go degree by degree until it is RIGHT.
2. Adjust the shocks click by click until they are right, it doesn't matter if each click changes the compression or rebound by a different amount, just find the setting that gives the best results.
Granted shock dynos are great for this, but this is hmt, and it IS possible to "street tune" your shocks. (Dirt bike riders have been doing it for decades)
1. There's no formula for ignition timing, you just start from conservative and go degree by degree until it is RIGHT.
2. Adjust the shocks click by click until they are right, it doesn't matter if each click changes the compression or rebound by a different amount, just find the setting that gives the best results.
Granted shock dynos are great for this, but this is hmt, and it IS possible to "street tune" your shocks. (Dirt bike riders have been doing it for decades)
Further, I've been through a couple of 300-350 whp rides that make peak power and then flatline for 3-4000 rpms, they feel slower than a peaky 3-350 whp car that is always "gaining" power until redline. Line the two different cars up and the "slow" cars that flatline pull bus lengths on the "fast" cars. This is a perfect example of why subjective human interpretation is a failure, and is the reason humans build instruments to take concrete measurements. If you think you can butt dyno some shock settings LOLOLOLOLOL have fun with that, especially when ***** on 99% of the shocks out there don't adjust anything in a logical or consistent manner. Go tune your ignition timing with an AFC, dog - it's the wrong tool for any job, but you saw it in a magazine and on forums so it must be good, right?
02-15-2009, 04:50 PM
#60
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Re: JIC magic FLT-a2 coilovers for $500?
this suspension talk is getting kind of tense haha
from personal experience having gc/koni setup and now jic's, the gc/koni was better. both on daily drivers. the koni/gc setup was smoother and stiffer at the same time. what i mean by that is no bouncing but it wouldnt beat you to death hitting bumps either. nice comfortable ride. the jic's seem to be relentless all the time but if you hit a dip in the road or something it feels like it tries to cushion but isnt comfortable. the suspension havnt been "tuned" either, but neither were the koni/gc's. IMO the jic's have not impressed me yet but it impresses people when they look at them haha
from personal experience having gc/koni setup and now jic's, the gc/koni was better. both on daily drivers. the koni/gc setup was smoother and stiffer at the same time. what i mean by that is no bouncing but it wouldnt beat you to death hitting bumps either. nice comfortable ride. the jic's seem to be relentless all the time but if you hit a dip in the road or something it feels like it tries to cushion but isnt comfortable. the suspension havnt been "tuned" either, but neither were the koni/gc's. IMO the jic's have not impressed me yet but it impresses people when they look at them haha
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