nonvtec

Alright so... It seems like I am the only person or one of few who disagrees with almost everything in this thread so I gotta step up and disagree then. Racerex being a fellow HMTer we have more in common than our political views so I'm sure you won't mind if I disagree with you on several points for some friendly discussion. Thanks.
First off, as far as "it's cool to be a democrat" being a lie. I've never heard that it was cool but it seems fairly normal for a republican to say it's not so... I don't know how that makes any difference. You probably think that people are forcefed liberal thinking by the media but I don't think so. I wouldn't consider myself Liberal I guess I just think Bush is a big retard.
I definitely agree that everyone should vote.
"Bush made the decision to go in based on the information that he had and it took valor" No freaking way, did you hear the press conferences with Bush? He had to apologize for acting on misinformation all the time. If he still though it was right why would he apologize so much, at least some of the American public realize they were lied to. Bush lied to us, Bush told us "IRAQ IS A THREAT" That was a freaking lie! Iraq was not a threat. No WMD's means no threat. The Iraqi people were all happy at first when we came in but now they are starting to hate our presence, and yes, common iraqis are killing our soldiers and every day our Americans die for nothing.
Bush, an independant thinker? Not listening to other countries and the UN when the thing he wants to do involves the whole world, that is what the UN is for. Bush=Imperialist. It's like Bush and all the Presidents/Governments of other countries are on a huge bridge. Bush is like "come on lets jump" Everyone else is like "You'll die, that is stupid and there is no reason to" And then Bush jumps anyway.
How you can you guys justify our troops dying for a threat that was never there? There was no threat! And now what are we going to do with Iraq, just keep sending more troops over to die? Because they aren't going to become a democratic nation overnight.
Whew, let me catch my breath.

MikeJ-2009

Well, it looks like Willahlborn has his head on straight.

Again, nobody will ever be the perfect president. Even Bush will and has made mistakes. But the guy knows what he believes in, and acts on his beliefs. If there was absolutely no "real" reason to go to Iraq, but he truely believed that by going there our country would be safer, than "thanks for watching out for us anyway."
Being pro-active and taking control of situations is how you get your desired effect. Our safety is the desired effect I look forward to for me and my family.

(I'm unhappy with his "amnesty" plan, but I don't think it will ever pass)

willahlborn

Okay, hold up.

Are you ------- retarded? No WMDs, no threat? I guess the risk of TOWLHEADED ********* CRASHING OUR PLANES INTO OUR OWN BUILDINGS wasn't a threat either then.

Again, the troops aren't being sent over to die--they're being sent over to do their job. Nobody told them to join up. The only way to keep people from dying the the army in my opinion would be to invent an army of robots. That would ------- rule.




too bad we can't even get our robots to take a ------- soil sample.

EDIT:
okay, and about this thing of Bush lying about blah, blah, blah. Bush probably has about 50 different people at any given time giving him intelligence information so he can do his job. Do you really think he has the time to fabricate this ----? If his reasons for going to war didn't pan out the way he thought they would, he didn't lie, it just means someone in our government either lied to HIM or the intel was faulty. End of story.

racerex

I appreciate your maturity in the matter. I do not however have time right now to respond to your comments. Now if only we could get politicians to debate and think without personal attacks.....that'll be the day.

MikeJ-2009

Nonvtec. You seem very uninformed about the whole situation. If you just watch something other than CNN for once you may find out your being lied to. I watch/listen to many different political programs. Most of the time you'll find that they discuss the same topic, but give different opinions. If your not careful, most people hear their "opinions" and take it as fact. It's a game they play with your communication skills.

Say you hire someone to find out if your girlfriend is cheating. He tells you all the signs he sees points to the fact that your girlfriend is cheating. You go and kick the guys ***, even though he denies everything. Same situation, your investigator gave you unfactual evidence. It could have happened, and it could have just looked like it happened. Either way, your gonna kick the guys ***. And if you find out that they did something but didn't actually sleep together, you'd have to apologize for having the wrong information. (If you were the president and your every move was watched) Or would you have not done anything? There you go.

nonvtec

Dude, don't call me ------- retarded man, I didn't do anything to warrant that. We both like Turbo Hondas, let that be enough for us to not call eachother names until I actually insult you personally or something, thanks. Anyway, you Willahborn, said something about 9/11 which has nothing to do with Iraq. I said Iraq wasn't a threat and you brought up Al Qaeda. Dude, we freaking destroyed Afghanistan and Al Qaeda, and Osama is hopefully dead. Two different things. Iraq was no threat, they had just started letting weapons inspectors go back in right when we freaking attacked them. What more can we do about 9/11, are we just going to start blaming it on every dictatorial country in the Middle East? Bush lied, if he couldn't figure out all the information he was getting, he should have been like "I need more time to decide what is truth and what is not instead of making a rash and stupid decision. Bottom line, he said "Iraq is an imminent threat" That was a lie, how can you say that isn't a lie. Then I guess Clinton didn't lie either right?

nonvtec

BTW: anybody watching MSNBC, it's the democratic debate, not that you guys are going to be voting in the primaries judging on your views represented here but it's really fun and informative. Alright, back to the arguing

willahlborn

Alright, i'm going to address each one of your points individually.

You can take it any way you want, you didn't have to take that personally. I stopped short of actually calling you ------- retarded, but my intent was to get you to step back and take a look at what you were saying. I mean, your viewpoint didn't really make a lot of sense--I hope you can at least agree with me on that.

What you are saying is that because we haven't found any WMDs in Iraq, they aren't a threat; meaning they can't do us any harm. My point was that it doesn't take WMDs to cause harm. Case in point, 9/11. I'm not saying that Iraq has ties to Al Qaida (though they probably do) but i'm saying that WMDs or not, Iraq is/was a threat--to everyone.

Are you serious? You keep saying "Bush lied". The man can't even pronounce the word "nuclear". His aides and advisors do everything short of chew the man's food. 9/11 was one big fuckup; even now we know that our inaction was a major contributing factor in the loss of life. Here's what Bush does: he gets intel, he acts on it, and if it looks like a bad idea or if he could be making a big mistake, 50 people are right there saying "this is a big mistake". I make fun of Bush but he's not a total retard. At least Bush wasn't willing to make the same mistake that had been made previous to 9/11, by taking no action before it was too late.

What the hell are you talking about? Are we talking about Clinton's infedelity here? I thought we were talking about current events. Iraq was an imminent threat. It was only a matter of time, and nothing you hear to the contrary is true. It was only a matter of time.

nonvtec

Alright, before I go out for the night, I'll state some last remarks until I can do another big post tommorow Yeah, I didn't take the the ------- retard personally, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I'm glad you think Bush is retarded, don't you think there is a better person for the job though. Why not have someone in power that will protect the American public and not be retarded. Someone who is retarded but who protects us, or someone who is sane, intelligent and who will protect us. Who would you choose? Alright, see you in the morning

MikeJ-2009

The only people that will be running against Bush aren't willing to protect us. That's their whole campaign.