b18.

Because they're the 'Authority' :1.

I notice more every day that police officers are simply not the best and brightest, they are people who became somewhat socially pidgeonholed and took their job as per an ulterior motive.

Either that or they have a very warped sense of authoritative justice and the reaches therein.

German Shepherds/Belgian Malinois are great dogs btw, any dog/animal remembers things based on association. If you teach it to be aggressive when it has the harness on and everyone is moving very fast, it's going to be aggressive (this also plays into it's nature of pack hunting), just like if a horse was scared once in a barn by a bearded man, the horse may be leary of bearded men when it's in the barn.

Most emotive thought is linked with associative environments.

evosol

Just a quick and dirty generalization, but one reason may be that the majority of Sheperd owners are more respondsible dog owners. You don't see urban kids struttin at the park with their GSD.... typically they are strutting with their poorly socialized pet bull. I laugh when I see tough guys walking down the street with their pit, and you can tell its just a nervious wreck... tail tucked and ears back....

A genetically sound dog who is confident, as all bully breeds should be, will not put on threat displays or shy from anything. Nothing bothers them, therefore they have no reason to feel threatened, and therefore should not bite out of fear. When i see pups or dogs that are shy, sound sensitive, and surface sensitive it throws up all kinds of red flags in regards to whats refered to as "nerves."

Most dog owners who don't know any better think that threat displays (growling, showing teeth, lunging at non threating things) are a sign of a good protection dog or are "protective." NOT true at all! These dogs probably end up biting the neighborhood kid and cause alarm for BSL.

And it is legal to train dogs to do bite work! I train my dogs in Schutzhund, a breed test that was originally designed for Shepards, but now has evolved into an all breed sport. This way you only breed the best with the best. And its more than just aggitating a dog to make it bite or playing tugg. Its teaching control, when to bite and when NOT to bite. And... geneticlly, not all dogs can handle the pressure of training... Ive seen "tough" dogs go out into the field, and once a little bit of pressure is put on the dog, they fold! Its a sport based on training genetically sound dogs.

dispocrx

""And its more than just aggitating a dog to make it bite or playing tugg. Its teaching control, when to bite and when NOT to bite."

I have a golden retriever, and she can be pretty rambunctious at times...its just how she is, she has had quite a bit of formal training, but she doesnt know everything now...But, if i decided to play around with her and let her be as rambunctious as she wants, i still have control..we play around and we play rough, but she knows the serious face, and she knows no. Ex. We'll be playing around and she'll start getting a little out of hand, so i stop, tell her to sit or lay down, and make sure i have control before we play anymore....something im real proud of with her...its all about positive re-inforcement, something most pitbull owner know NOTHING of...
A guy i worked with picked up a baby pit because a girl conviced him to...first thing i heard out of him was about how he is gonna whip the dogs *** the second it does something wrong...lemme tell you, its hard as **** to convince an ignorant pitbull owner to give the dog respect...

Jorsher

I know exactly what you're talking about evosol. These "thugs" think their pit is tough because they beat the dogs and make them mean. They don't realize they're just making their dog a big ----- that will snap at anything that might make it nervous.

I haven't read about schutzund and only know the basic idea about what it is, but yeah positive reinforcement is what makes a GOOD dog. You don't want to make your dog scared to do something wrong, you want it to WANT to do things right.

I taught my dog bite inhibition as soon as I got her. I can play rough with her, and if she ever slips and bites a little too hard, all I have to do is say "ow" and she will calmly sit down with her ears back and an "oops" look on her face. Now, as rough as our playing might look, she never bites hard and the only thing you have to worry about is either her sharp nails or accidentally scraping yourself against her teeth.

Dr.Boost

My dog LOVES people and wants to meet everybody who is around. He's like the social cool guy that has to walk around and talk to everybody and make friends. It gets annoying when you have to keep him from doing that though. Alot of people freak out if an unknown dog comes up to them, regardless if it looks happy or pissed. The only time he acts shy or nervous is when he knows he fucked up and chewed something up. :P
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evosol

Kudos for using positive training!

Dogs have several different "drives" they work from. The first one seen in most dogs are prey drives, its the want to chase and pounce on anything that moves. Game bred pits and working dogs must have tons of prey drive to excell in their sports. Most "working dogs" are too much dog for the regular pet owner to handle. You may have to use compulsion to get through to them when they are in their prey drives.

The second are defense drives. Most bully breeds have lots of defense drives, essentially, its the will to stay and fight when encountered with something frightening. You can imagine, what a stituation might look like if a high defense dog with shitty nerves might do to a little kid...

Bullybreeds and bulldogs (and German sheperds) where bred to do dangerous jobs, which required nerves of steel and courage.... These are things that retrievers where not bred to do, hence their lack of defense drives and prey drives.

I'm not knockin on your retriever, bud, (I also own a Choc. Lab) but my point I was making is that sometimes you need to use compulsion on high prey dogs. They are soo bent on pouncing whatever it is they are focused on they get tunnel vision, this is what i was refering to when i said "control."

My Choc. Lab, i just look at him and he knows what is expected. My 2 American Bulldogs (one is strictly a Schutzhund trained dog), require hours of training and proofing to get the control over their intensity. Labs and Retrievers don't have the intensity to do man work.

As far as training goes...
You got the strictly positive school of thought and the yank and crank school of thought. I'm somewhere in the middle... all my dogs do nothing but positive training when they are less than a year old. I do this to build confidence and bond with me. Once they are over a year old I start to do formal obedience training, where they learn commands. Once they learn commands, and i'm 100% positive they know them, i'll start to use compulsion.

If I give the command "platz," (german for down) and they don't comply, I say "no", and give them a pop on the prong collar. This way they have a choice... which is what i consider to be a fair leader for my dogs.

evosol

Isn't your dog the one who chewed up the couch in the garage? LoL....

evosol

sorry if this has gotten off topic Jorsher, but I just wanted to share this Schutzhund vid i was watching...

I think you'll apprecaite it...

This dog is intense!
Protection
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/3887922/...imo_aka_Lennox

obedience
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/3887198/...imo_aka_Lennox

Jorsher

No prob, I'm interested in it and will check it out when I get home. They gave me a new computer at work that has the sound hardware locked and I can't listen to anything haha.

ososlohatch

your avatar gives me a headache