help. sputtering popping and backfireing under boost.
07-10-2012, 11:22 AM
#21
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 935
buy the one already assembled. wiring is pretty simple as it gets rid of all the emissions devises.
07-10-2012, 12:15 PM
#22
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
soon as my 02 gets hear ill be able to get a better idea of how the engine is running. with no turbo installed and my wideband in the stock exhaust i should see some major changes to the afr. if not i know there is another issue all together.
the price of mega squirt adds up quik and its probly not gonna be an option for me at this point.
id really like to see this turbo run well on the stock efi. maybe by adding a 5th injector or something thats not so expansive and not a complete engine harness rebuild.
i could even turn the boost down on the wastegate a bit if that would help but as i said before it will lean out and pop well before any real boost kicks in.
the price of mega squirt adds up quik and its probly not gonna be an option for me at this point.
id really like to see this turbo run well on the stock efi. maybe by adding a 5th injector or something thats not so expansive and not a complete engine harness rebuild.
i could even turn the boost down on the wastegate a bit if that would help but as i said before it will lean out and pop well before any real boost kicks in.
07-10-2012, 04:23 PM
#23
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 68
What specific ecm do you have? My thoughts are can it be tuned and also can you toss a different mask in it. Research is the key as I have no idea what you have on that and if its abe to be modded easily.
MegaSqt. Is a option. Its a good idea, and is somewhat easy to set up if you understand electronics a bit and mainly tuning. I didnt choose that because I could retain my stock ecm and do what I needed. Basically it was cheeper to keep the stocker in my case.
I am using a stock ecm with a $59 mask on it. Its obd1 GM stuff. Very easy to tune at home. 3 bar map, boost control, datalogging the AFR's and any thing else you can think of that you would need.
Guy above is RIGHT. No car can handle 12psi with no tune if it was N/A to start with.
MegaSqt. Is a option. Its a good idea, and is somewhat easy to set up if you understand electronics a bit and mainly tuning. I didnt choose that because I could retain my stock ecm and do what I needed. Basically it was cheeper to keep the stocker in my case.
I am using a stock ecm with a $59 mask on it. Its obd1 GM stuff. Very easy to tune at home. 3 bar map, boost control, datalogging the AFR's and any thing else you can think of that you would need.
Guy above is RIGHT. No car can handle 12psi with no tune if it was N/A to start with.
Last edited by fasteddi; 07-10-2012 at 04:27 PM.
07-10-2012, 05:57 PM
#24
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
as far as what ecu i have all i can say is its a stock one out of a 1995 geo tracker with a 16v engine and manual tranny. its the exact same in the suzuki sidekick and also the chevy tracker.
its also an obd1.
my harness has been modified to control the engine and thats it. its a very simple 6 plug or so setup that untill now has been flawless.
can you tell me more about the ''mask'' you mentioned.
ive never heared of modifiying my stock computer but that dosent mean it cant be done.
the dist advance is all computer controlled.
i dont know much about injectors im starting to wonder what other injectors would fit and work with my engine, as far as i know there are no after market injectors that add more fuel than the stock ones.
its also an obd1.
my harness has been modified to control the engine and thats it. its a very simple 6 plug or so setup that untill now has been flawless.
can you tell me more about the ''mask'' you mentioned.
ive never heared of modifiying my stock computer but that dosent mean it cant be done.
the dist advance is all computer controlled.
i dont know much about injectors im starting to wonder what other injectors would fit and work with my engine, as far as i know there are no after market injectors that add more fuel than the stock ones.
07-10-2012, 06:23 PM
#25
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Are you sure its a obd1? 12 pins is obd1 16 pins is obd2 BUT there were a few years in teh 93-96 era where it was 16 pin but a OBD1.
This is good news if you can find out the specific ecm is in the car and it is a GM one, GM Obd1 is easy to tune, very! I will look arround a little and see if I can find out which on it has.
Heres the best way to explain it so you understand...
The Mask or as its called a XDF file, is sorta like a piece of paper that you can write on, it has certaint lines and places to put stuff. But you dont change this, its is just like a pad of paper that is what it is. It also is a sort of translation for your bin file, I hope you sorta understand what I mean.
The BIN file is what fills those lines up(what you will change for tuning) Information such as fuel maps, rev limiter, spark, stuff like that.
A ADX is for certain software, is basically a translation so that you can record the data as you drive and read it. I use Tunerpro RT V5, its FREE> Its what you see on the laptop.
What you can do with some ecms is put a different mask (XDF) file on a chip and add the information (BIN file) as you chose. I chose a $59 mask and Bin file to use. It is for a sy/ty Truck. You know the turboed charged trucks Gm made back in the day? It works perfect for me and it was as easy as buying some inexspencive hardware. Such as a chip burner, a few chips, a chip adapter, and a ALDL cable which you use to datalog(record info on a laptop) This (aldl cable) is pluged from your OBD1 port into a usb port on your computer. 200 bucks later and I can do anything to my ecm and record it, watch it back, print info out, whatever you want to do.
I will skip PIN OUT infromation as that is what you may have to phsically do, such as slighly change some wiring to your ecm, once again Very Very Easy to do. BUT in my case I didn't have to do any "pin outs"
I can get into more info later if you want, we need to conferm you do have OBD1 and what ecm though first. And also if you would be interested in taking this route.
Here is a peak of the laptop when recording info... neat hu? Just a random video when I had boost lag problems. Boost is on the left middle, Spark is under that. AFR's on the right, then I also have the intake temps, the engine temps, RPM, MPH and Spark Retard all on that screen so that I can see it when I want. This is only the tip of what is on the TunerPro Software.
EDIT: Now reading that its probly a suzuki ECM in those cars only not a GM one, this may be a issue as Im not finding much info at this point. I read this after I wrote this reply above.
Heres is the link im seeing and the others look the same. http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...rogrammed.html
This is good news if you can find out the specific ecm is in the car and it is a GM one, GM Obd1 is easy to tune, very! I will look arround a little and see if I can find out which on it has.
Heres the best way to explain it so you understand...
The Mask or as its called a XDF file, is sorta like a piece of paper that you can write on, it has certaint lines and places to put stuff. But you dont change this, its is just like a pad of paper that is what it is. It also is a sort of translation for your bin file, I hope you sorta understand what I mean.
The BIN file is what fills those lines up(what you will change for tuning) Information such as fuel maps, rev limiter, spark, stuff like that.
A ADX is for certain software, is basically a translation so that you can record the data as you drive and read it. I use Tunerpro RT V5, its FREE> Its what you see on the laptop.
What you can do with some ecms is put a different mask (XDF) file on a chip and add the information (BIN file) as you chose. I chose a $59 mask and Bin file to use. It is for a sy/ty Truck. You know the turboed charged trucks Gm made back in the day? It works perfect for me and it was as easy as buying some inexspencive hardware. Such as a chip burner, a few chips, a chip adapter, and a ALDL cable which you use to datalog(record info on a laptop) This (aldl cable) is pluged from your OBD1 port into a usb port on your computer. 200 bucks later and I can do anything to my ecm and record it, watch it back, print info out, whatever you want to do.
I will skip PIN OUT infromation as that is what you may have to phsically do, such as slighly change some wiring to your ecm, once again Very Very Easy to do. BUT in my case I didn't have to do any "pin outs"
I can get into more info later if you want, we need to conferm you do have OBD1 and what ecm though first. And also if you would be interested in taking this route.
Here is a peak of the laptop when recording info... neat hu? Just a random video when I had boost lag problems. Boost is on the left middle, Spark is under that. AFR's on the right, then I also have the intake temps, the engine temps, RPM, MPH and Spark Retard all on that screen so that I can see it when I want. This is only the tip of what is on the TunerPro Software.
EDIT: Now reading that its probly a suzuki ECM in those cars only not a GM one, this may be a issue as Im not finding much info at this point. I read this after I wrote this reply above.
Heres is the link im seeing and the others look the same. http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...rogrammed.html
Last edited by fasteddi; 07-10-2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Added bottom info
07-10-2012, 07:30 PM
#26
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
on the harness im now useing i know for a fact that i have no obd pug at all. i may have before but this harness was moddified by a off road shop that cut it down to a bare minimum.
i like the laptop in your ride and haveing the ability to tune it to perfection. thats pretty cool stuff.
so in all honestly this cheap easy turbo i wanted isnt going to be as easy as i thought.
id still like to pursue the turbo setup.
i had a thought.
if i used a btm for timeing. what else could be done to give it more fuel?
maybee bigger injectors with a riseing rate fuel pressure regulator?
in that case id have to start researching larger injectors that will work along with a better pump that will build more than 40 psi.
i like the laptop in your ride and haveing the ability to tune it to perfection. thats pretty cool stuff.
so in all honestly this cheap easy turbo i wanted isnt going to be as easy as i thought.
id still like to pursue the turbo setup.
i had a thought.
if i used a btm for timeing. what else could be done to give it more fuel?
maybee bigger injectors with a riseing rate fuel pressure regulator?
in that case id have to start researching larger injectors that will work along with a better pump that will build more than 40 psi.
07-10-2012, 07:38 PM
#27
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 68
You could use the BTM for timing, and use a FMU or "rising rate fuel pressure regulator". This will allow you to boost the fuel pressure when so much boost is made. For example a, 4:1 would add 4psi of fuel pressure for every Psi of boost. Its more old school to tune like this but has been done. You may need to upgrade the fuel pump to handle the extra flow in time. I got a walbro 255lph, which will handle alot, for 90 bucks. I've not done this personally but am sure someone on here has and there is also a ton of info on it on the net. Google is your best friend in reasearch such as this.
Since you may not look to tune the car, larger injectors may not be a good idea becasue if you get too large of injectors you will be rich as can be and have no way to tune the ecm and tell it you have larger then stock ones.
Best thing to start is to see what size injectors you car has stock and what is the base fuel pressure on the car. Then you can start doing the math to see how much fuel presssure you would need to add under boost to support some HP> Obvously if you have to add ungodly amounts of fuel pressure, this is not a good idea as you can just imagine what 80-100psi of fuel pressure will do if the lines are not new or in great shape.
Since you may not look to tune the car, larger injectors may not be a good idea becasue if you get too large of injectors you will be rich as can be and have no way to tune the ecm and tell it you have larger then stock ones.
Best thing to start is to see what size injectors you car has stock and what is the base fuel pressure on the car. Then you can start doing the math to see how much fuel presssure you would need to add under boost to support some HP> Obvously if you have to add ungodly amounts of fuel pressure, this is not a good idea as you can just imagine what 80-100psi of fuel pressure will do if the lines are not new or in great shape.
07-10-2012, 09:32 PM
#28
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
ok ive been reading all day now heres a bit of info ive come up with.
stock injectors 18lb. (190cc)
stock computer can control up to 23-24lb 225cc) or so ive read on the internet.
stock fuel pressure running at idle 30-37lbs.
static fuel pressure 36-40lbs.
65psi when return line is blocked no info on how much the regulator changes the pressure.
reading on zuki world theres a post on someone useing injectors out of a 2.3 liter ford car and haveing great luck on a boosted 16v. another thread on zuharrie has a complete turbo build and hes running stock injectors and pump while useing a vortech 10:1 rrfpr. the link below is to this rig.
lots of stuff to learn but ill keep at it till i have a set plan.
heres a thread that details a great running 16v engine start to finish. most the usefull info is in the first 2-3 pages if you get a chance check it out theres alot of tech. the pictures used to be up and have just left in the last month or so wtf?
Turbo 1.6 16V Tracker/Sidekick motor in a Samurai = FAST FUN!
heres a poser pic of my crawler sorry its a poser shot but its all i have.
stock injectors 18lb. (190cc)
stock computer can control up to 23-24lb 225cc) or so ive read on the internet.
stock fuel pressure running at idle 30-37lbs.
static fuel pressure 36-40lbs.
65psi when return line is blocked no info on how much the regulator changes the pressure.
reading on zuki world theres a post on someone useing injectors out of a 2.3 liter ford car and haveing great luck on a boosted 16v. another thread on zuharrie has a complete turbo build and hes running stock injectors and pump while useing a vortech 10:1 rrfpr. the link below is to this rig.
lots of stuff to learn but ill keep at it till i have a set plan.
heres a thread that details a great running 16v engine start to finish. most the usefull info is in the first 2-3 pages if you get a chance check it out theres alot of tech. the pictures used to be up and have just left in the last month or so wtf?
Turbo 1.6 16V Tracker/Sidekick motor in a Samurai = FAST FUN!
heres a poser pic of my crawler sorry its a poser shot but its all i have.
Last edited by nickrocks; 07-10-2012 at 09:35 PM.
07-12-2012, 01:00 AM
#29
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
can someone tell me in mathmatical terms how to calculate the amount of fuel pressure increase i would need to get my engine to run at 12:1 afr at 8psi. boost useing a 10:1 rrfpr.
all the other stuff needed should be in the last post other than i would change fuel pump to say a e 2000 thats capable of 95 psi.
im lost here.
rite now my afr goes leaner than 18:1 before i hit 4000 rpm so im shure ill need a fair amount of pressure to make much differance.
all the other stuff needed should be in the last post other than i would change fuel pump to say a e 2000 thats capable of 95 psi.
im lost here.
rite now my afr goes leaner than 18:1 before i hit 4000 rpm so im shure ill need a fair amount of pressure to make much differance.
07-12-2012, 04:47 AM
#30
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Its a pain for me to figure it out right as Ive never really done it but. Read though this.
Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance
a 10:1 would net 209Hp@ 90% injector duty cycle if I did it right. 120psi I used. The static 40psi plus the 80 you added from 8psi of boostx10 from the 10:1 RRfrp.
ALL stock you can handle 124Hp@90% duty cycle.
So that is a extra 85Hp you could handle. And if you want 8psi of boost, Id say that you would be close on the fueling but may be ok. Although the stock fuel pump may not keep up. A different one may be needed.
Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance
a 10:1 would net 209Hp@ 90% injector duty cycle if I did it right. 120psi I used. The static 40psi plus the 80 you added from 8psi of boostx10 from the 10:1 RRfrp.
ALL stock you can handle 124Hp@90% duty cycle.
So that is a extra 85Hp you could handle. And if you want 8psi of boost, Id say that you would be close on the fueling but may be ok. Although the stock fuel pump may not keep up. A different one may be needed.
